Sting of the Queen (Yummey)
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Sting of the Queen (Yummey)
by Neau » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:58 am
- 80 Shaman of Valorguard
Innoruuk (Nameless)
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by anaskesia » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:45 am
Well, no wizard, mage, or even druid is going to be terribly impressed by our nuking. I *do* think though that this will be a useful tool for the Busy Shaman (tm) so that you can toss off some extra damage without being embarassed by our embarassingly bad crits.
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by Brohg » Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:49 am
No, not revolutionary. You paint a nice picture of shaman damage right there... as if other classes didn't also jump in capability. Just for levelling up, with no upgrades or skill ups or additional AA or discs, melee characters deal 10% more damage just with the autoattack button. Wizards get instant cast nukes, their big bomb that only ever gets cast for 1 mana jumps by nearly 1k base damage, and they score 5k mana Harvest and their Concussion spell jumps from 400 -hate to -4800.
I get that you're working really hard at optimism, and championing the class or whatever, but it's not objective. Sting is a very good spell. But it's not revolutionary or out of line at all with reasonably upgraded damage capability. You're not suddenly a shark in the wading pool, Sting of the Queen isn't laser beams on your head. You're just a shaman, who generally outdamages only knights, enchanters, and clerics, with level 75 damage dealing ability instead of level 70 damage dealing ability, outdamaging level 75 knights, enchanters, and clerics instead of outdamaging level 70 knights, enchanters and clerics. FFS (means For 1-900-MixALot's Sake, in case anyone's unclear), it's entirely possible for an ability to be crowd-pleasing good fun and not reinventing the wheel at the same time.
I get that you're working really hard at optimism, and championing the class or whatever, but it's not objective. Sting is a very good spell. But it's not revolutionary or out of line at all with reasonably upgraded damage capability. You're not suddenly a shark in the wading pool, Sting of the Queen isn't laser beams on your head. You're just a shaman, who generally outdamages only knights, enchanters, and clerics, with level 75 damage dealing ability instead of level 70 damage dealing ability, outdamaging level 75 knights, enchanters, and clerics instead of outdamaging level 70 knights, enchanters and clerics. FFS (means For 1-900-MixALot's Sake, in case anyone's unclear), it's entirely possible for an ability to be crowd-pleasing good fun and not reinventing the wheel at the same time.
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Wizard - Alt/Box
by jdthomas » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:40 am
I wouldn't call it revolutionary. It is however a spell that fits nicely within our casting methodology. We often *only* have small bits of dead casting time and this fits in there well.
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by Jaraman » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:12 am
Ok, not revolutionary, if you see that word as too strong. Not sucky tho. Nor meh. More than good. Damn good.
If we had NOT gotten Sting, we'd have more of the same relative low-end shaman DPS at level 75. By all rights, we should have gotten a rain upgrade instead. That would mostly do around 5k damage (3 waves of 1168, one critting at 2.4x), arguably in the same vicinity as averaged Sting damage. But if we had gotten that instead, there would've been a smaller percentage of shaman who would cast the new rain (1/3 of us only sometimes?) compared to the number of new shaman who will be casting Sting (almost all shaman very often?). Many don't bother with rains for several reasons, but the biggest factor is the long cast time. Sting is a double upgrade from a rain by outclassing maximum damage booms (instant gratification) and spell casting time convenience.
It would not have been surprising to NOT have gotten Talisman of the Panther. Again, many more shaman will use TP because the spell isn't crappy, and is an upgrade in spell casting time convenience and maximum realistic sustained and actually applied DPS output. Sure, single panther theoretically could outclass TP in damage/efficiency via longer duration singly applied over a sweet spot of 3-4 targets, but that is a lot of work that not only cuts into other spellcasting and cannibalizing, but puts a practical tolerable limit on how many targets the shaman would sustain. TP gives you many more targets much easier and quicker, raising damage while freeing up time. It can be kept up every fight, thereby practically eliminating the duration argument, leaving the mana expenditure issue. Then again, this is TSS, and mana is not in shortage, but more plentiful than ever before. So TP is if not revolutionary, then damn good.
An underpraised DOT that we got is Nectar of Pain. Unfocussed: 668, 656, 644, 632, 620, 608, 596, 596. With one more tic due to extended detrimental duration, due to Nectar being a reverse splurt, the additional tic gets frontloaded (680) and the rest of the DOT's tics remain the same, with the last 2 tics again being 596. Where Nectar's weakest tic never dips below 596, our best normal poison DOT Vengeance of Ahnkaul at rank 3 only does 594 all tics. Nectar remains superior in the damage department. But it also has immediate practical benefits of being attainable easily, having the mana cost of a level 70 spell versus a level 75 spell, and has focus effects that work at full power. Damn good.
nce upon a time, our mediocre aggro-heavy group DPS via DOTs was finally augmented by being combined with a revolutionary spell called Spirit of the Panther. In the TSS era, we have the capability now to sustain 3 types of damn good DPS which creates a synergy that is almost revolutionary for shamans. Singly, damn good. In combination, better than damn good. Compared to our purely shaman, older models.
Not at all revolutionary compared to Wizards. But why are we comparing to wizzies? They finally got a long overdue revolution by being returned to the top of caster DPS. And yeah, melees get an incredible DPS boost as well, but that shadows over all casters, including shaman. Comparing to these is grasping for convincing arguments. Comparing to our typical niche of DPS -- enchanters, clerics, Knights, tree-huggers, etc -- is more reasonable. And if we have not gained here (which we have in my early opinion), we certainly have not slipped. And that itself is almost revolutionary...
But don't get me wrong. Yes, I'm optimistic, but I have no overt objective of trying to "champion" the class. I'm just weighing in on the upbeat mofo end of the spectrum to somewhat counter the negative ninnies. If one wants high-end DPS and respectable utility, well then one plays a ranger or a necro or something. If one wants high-end utility with respectable DPS, the shaman looks to do that pretty damn well. Finally, FFR (For First Rule, in case anyone's unclear), let's not parse anything because it would serve no long-term positive cause anyhow. As for objectivity, meh, well subjectively things sure feel a lot better. And maintaining TP, NoP, and Sting surpasses paladin DPS by a longshot, unless I'm totally missing something here. But tbh, I haven't talked to any TSS knights about their newfound DPS. But no matter, in the shaman world, things are not sucky. Maybe not Golden Era, but certainly not the Dark Ages nor the Unremarkable Middle Years.
That's all. An offer to look at the silver lining rather than brood at stormclouds. Both are real, one just chooses which to dwell on. And that choice frames your outlook, which sets the mood for how you either enjoy frills or simply tolerate frustrations. In this game, I'm in for enjoyment amidst challenges, not resignation amongst class envy.
If we had NOT gotten Sting, we'd have more of the same relative low-end shaman DPS at level 75. By all rights, we should have gotten a rain upgrade instead. That would mostly do around 5k damage (3 waves of 1168, one critting at 2.4x), arguably in the same vicinity as averaged Sting damage. But if we had gotten that instead, there would've been a smaller percentage of shaman who would cast the new rain (1/3 of us only sometimes?) compared to the number of new shaman who will be casting Sting (almost all shaman very often?). Many don't bother with rains for several reasons, but the biggest factor is the long cast time. Sting is a double upgrade from a rain by outclassing maximum damage booms (instant gratification) and spell casting time convenience.
It would not have been surprising to NOT have gotten Talisman of the Panther. Again, many more shaman will use TP because the spell isn't crappy, and is an upgrade in spell casting time convenience and maximum realistic sustained and actually applied DPS output. Sure, single panther theoretically could outclass TP in damage/efficiency via longer duration singly applied over a sweet spot of 3-4 targets, but that is a lot of work that not only cuts into other spellcasting and cannibalizing, but puts a practical tolerable limit on how many targets the shaman would sustain. TP gives you many more targets much easier and quicker, raising damage while freeing up time. It can be kept up every fight, thereby practically eliminating the duration argument, leaving the mana expenditure issue. Then again, this is TSS, and mana is not in shortage, but more plentiful than ever before. So TP is if not revolutionary, then damn good.
An underpraised DOT that we got is Nectar of Pain. Unfocussed: 668, 656, 644, 632, 620, 608, 596, 596. With one more tic due to extended detrimental duration, due to Nectar being a reverse splurt, the additional tic gets frontloaded (680) and the rest of the DOT's tics remain the same, with the last 2 tics again being 596. Where Nectar's weakest tic never dips below 596, our best normal poison DOT Vengeance of Ahnkaul at rank 3 only does 594 all tics. Nectar remains superior in the damage department. But it also has immediate practical benefits of being attainable easily, having the mana cost of a level 70 spell versus a level 75 spell, and has focus effects that work at full power. Damn good.
nce upon a time, our mediocre aggro-heavy group DPS via DOTs was finally augmented by being combined with a revolutionary spell called Spirit of the Panther. In the TSS era, we have the capability now to sustain 3 types of damn good DPS which creates a synergy that is almost revolutionary for shamans. Singly, damn good. In combination, better than damn good. Compared to our purely shaman, older models.
Not at all revolutionary compared to Wizards. But why are we comparing to wizzies? They finally got a long overdue revolution by being returned to the top of caster DPS. And yeah, melees get an incredible DPS boost as well, but that shadows over all casters, including shaman. Comparing to these is grasping for convincing arguments. Comparing to our typical niche of DPS -- enchanters, clerics, Knights, tree-huggers, etc -- is more reasonable. And if we have not gained here (which we have in my early opinion), we certainly have not slipped. And that itself is almost revolutionary...
But don't get me wrong. Yes, I'm optimistic, but I have no overt objective of trying to "champion" the class. I'm just weighing in on the upbeat mofo end of the spectrum to somewhat counter the negative ninnies. If one wants high-end DPS and respectable utility, well then one plays a ranger or a necro or something. If one wants high-end utility with respectable DPS, the shaman looks to do that pretty damn well. Finally, FFR (For First Rule, in case anyone's unclear), let's not parse anything because it would serve no long-term positive cause anyhow. As for objectivity, meh, well subjectively things sure feel a lot better. And maintaining TP, NoP, and Sting surpasses paladin DPS by a longshot, unless I'm totally missing something here. But tbh, I haven't talked to any TSS knights about their newfound DPS. But no matter, in the shaman world, things are not sucky. Maybe not Golden Era, but certainly not the Dark Ages nor the Unremarkable Middle Years.
That's all. An offer to look at the silver lining rather than brood at stormclouds. Both are real, one just chooses which to dwell on. And that choice frames your outlook, which sets the mood for how you either enjoy frills or simply tolerate frustrations. In this game, I'm in for enjoyment amidst challenges, not resignation amongst class envy.
- Jaraman
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by Shammygirl » Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:34 pm
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by Grendalkhan » Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:01 pm
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=586374">Teesa Zjoquor</a>
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=453758">GrendalKhan Rose</a> (Retired)
"The general shaman consensus, however, is that the lead spell designer is so wedded to his self-delusional notions of godhood, that he refuses to admit any error unless someone up the food chain from him stuffs a change down his throat."-Chutoi Dogslobber
<a href="http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=453758">GrendalKhan Rose</a> (Retired)
"The general shaman consensus, however, is that the lead spell designer is so wedded to his self-delusional notions of godhood, that he refuses to admit any error unless someone up the food chain from him stuffs a change down his throat."-Chutoi Dogslobber
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