by dindaur » Sat May 19, 2007 3:42 pm
"crying for new aggro stuff / it covers all situations"
Sacred Force Rk. II Detail | History | Timer | Raw Data
Slot Description
1: Stun(4.00 sec/75)
Mana: 80 Skill: Evocation
Casting Time: 1 Recast Time: 12
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Resist Adjust: -45 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Fizzle Adj: 87 Hate Generated: 2000
Deletable: No Interruptable: Yes
Timer ID: 4 Target Type: Single
Spell Type: Detrimental Category: Stun [Targeted]
Source: Live 05/16
Classes: PAL/71
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Sacred Force Rk. II
Cast on you: You are struck by a sudden force.
Cast on other: Someone is struck by a sudden force.
Force of Prexus Rk. II Detail | History | Timer | Raw Data
Slot Description
1: Stun(4.00 sec/75)
Mana: 100 Skill: Evocation
Casting Time: 1 Recast Time: 12
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Resist Adjust: -55 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Hate Generated: 2250 Deletable: No
Interruptable: Yes Timer ID: 5
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Category: Stun [Targeted] Source: Live 05/16
Classes: PAL/75
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Force of Prexus Rk. II
Cast on you: You are stunned by a wave of saltwater.
Cast on other: Someone is stunned by a wave of saltwater.
our stuns.
recast 12. rightly so, they stun mobs. if the recast were six, mobs would remain stunned without break. this is if the stun duration remained the same. we don't want this. OVERPOWERING.
recast 12, meaning a stun every 6, meaning 2000 + 2250 = 4,250 per 12 second cycle (both stuns cast) AGGRO.
Hand of Disruption Detail | History | Raw Data
Slot Description
1: Unknown #343 (100/100/0)
Mana: 0 Casting Time: 1
Recast Time: 0 Fizzle Time: 0
Resist: Magic Resist Adjust: -50
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Hate Generated: 600
You STILL cant maintin off that aggressive berserker. Off hand, can't remember the recast of HoD. It doesn't matter. 4,250 + 600 = 4,850 per 12 second cycle.
We could quote personal experience left and right, but lets stick with the facts.
A berserker has the ability to exceed 4,850 per 12 using his damaging abilities. A TSS geared rogue has the ability to exceed 4,850 per 12 doing normal group dps stuff.
You CANNOT keep solid aggro off of these people. Think about the quality of play. You're sitting there, mashing stuns, adding in bash for added effect.
LETS SAY you are going full blast, every twelve seconds you are Casting 3 Spell Gems (TSS / TBS + challenge) an AA ability (hod) and a bash (fast refresh) - 5 keys that are getting hit at least once every 12 second cycle. This, the maximum output of a paladin, is STILL insufficient for group content situations.
IT IS MY BELIEF that a Paladin's aggro potential per 12 second cycle SHOULD be powerful enough to hold aggro off EVERY non - tank. Our Max Potential should dwarf any class who's primary function is not aggro. Consider clerics druids and shaman healing to that of a beast ranger and paladin.
Once you've got your mind around that, the question is, how do we do it.
Options as i see it, increase aggro on stuns even more (don't want this, marries us even more to stuns) OR give us a new spell line or two, STUNS WITH NO STUN COMPONENT TO BALANCE THE RECAST TIMER BY - you could give them similar aggro levels to current stuns (current top two are 2,000, 2,250) Make the value around 2 - 2.5k and make the recast 6 seconds instead of 12.
What does this do, why is it worth doing?
every 12, 2,000 + 2,000 (new stun line 1 cast twice) 2,000 + 2,000 (new stun line 2 cast twice) 8,000 every 12.
We've doubled our aggro over time.
Now to balance it. Because these new aggro lines are a massive increase in aggro, the cuts WILL come. One idea that may not be very good in the long run: Tie them to current stuns. One tied to the TSS line of direct aggro perhaps, One tied to the TBS line of direct aggro. WE CANT use these non-stuns and still have our stunning spells intact, in order to have greater aggro we give up the stun component.
Now, we'd also get the usual upgrades to the stun lines like we'd have to to have the ability to stun up to 80.
Bottom line is versatility. We are a class of versatility, we have abilities that let us do alot of interesting things; however this is a real problem with aggro. There is a problem when a paladin doing all he can cannot maintain aggro if the gear difference is too great. A stunning paladin isn't going to be swinging much, his gear won't matter as much as the spells he has. A dps'ing rogue's weapons ARE the source of his aggro, the better weps the better the dps and the greater aggro - these rogues are upgrading their aggro through weapons, and our spells aren't keeping in line with the heights these items reach. give us the option to decide if the situation warrents more aggro - perhaps even for just a round or two, for the ability to have increased burst aggro on inc or perhaps the first few rounds of a fight. the main point is the recast timer, with a faster recast we can chain faster and compete with the best of 'em.
I'd settle for one new line, something that isn't a stun, but has direct aggro attached to it - heh, hell, want a stun timer nobody gives a shit about? put it on the stun + DD knockback we get every damn expansion ;p.
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