Complacency, pt 2.... shammy DPS

[Fenier]

[siludorf]

[Scowls]

[Fenier]

[Chutoi]

[Ungkor]

[Chutoi]

[Ungkor]

[Jaraman]

[Ungkor]

[Bigsnack For'Mobs]

[jdthomas]

[Scowls]

post anguish (and before that) shaman group cosist of 5 melee and me. if i dont do much dps, i do the healing and suport, screw inviting other healers, im not gonna get to dps anyways with them there. thats my personal experience

[Chutoi]

I very much agree with Ungkor and Bigsnack above.

Necros aren't quite as gimped as us in shorter fights, though--they have a few very large, very fast acting DoTs, whereas we have only Curse for our large short-term DoTs. However, they too, feel the pain in short fights.

On the other hand, they have kickass pets, lifetaps and nukes--all of which make for good short-term dps too!

In answer to your earlier question, Jar, in fast-killing groups I am usually forced to go with rains and nukes as my damage contribution--and as you well know our mana to damage ratio sucks balls on those types of spells. It's majorly inefficient.

Just to give you some idea of relative dps for a well-equipped group, last major exp push I did (I'm full AA/exp at the moment) was in RS. It was empty, and with 1 group, we kept everything above the ground floor clear. Everything. I think it was a wizard, ranger, 2 warriors, cleric, and me, though one of the warriors kept an ench bot on follow for VoQ/hastes.

I am pretty sure both the ranger and wizard were putting out well over 1k dps (sustained for about an hour, with 1 med break at the end of the hour). The warriors were probably managing about 700-800 dps, and the cleric was mostly nuking (our guild tanks have very high hp/ac). I'm pretty sure I managed to squeeze out about 10AA in an hour. Fights were probably on the order of 30 seconds each, unless we had 2+ in camp, in which case we simply split them.

Chutoi

[Brohg]

Not a chance on the wizard/ranger 1ks. No way. You're overestimating the warriors, too. I think that about covers that whole group, so you're basically overestimating everyone's damage but your own. Not the way to win a thread sir. Weak post, try again or post a log of that play session with others' damage on.

[Beafly]

[Chutoi]

[Scalia]

[Brohg]

[Jaraman]

Alright guys, I'm kinda bored tonite, so I'm going to post some thoughts here which may spark yet another flurry of "that damn apologist Jara is at it again!"
Now realize I fully see how our DPS needs a kick in the ass end-game....and our DoTs need some major resist loving... and these numbers are only when you're really on a good roll.. and so on and so forth...

But...

If I were an engineer, presented with a limited set of tools, and had a practical issue to resolve in front of me, this is how I would address GROUP DPS situations like 30 sec fights in The Nest or in RSS:

Keep 3 panthers up... in a group with 30 second fights there is no reason not to chain pull, and subsequently no good reason other than laziness to not keep multiple panthers up -- that's 240ish DPS or 7k a battle

Keep pup up -- there's 35 DPS or 1k a battle (one of those panthers is on pup)

Use Nectar of Pain and Curse EARLY in the fight. Expect 4 tics of NoP, 3 tics of Sisslak. With full crit AAs and a decent focus, NoP should average just over 1k a tic, Sisslak just under 1k. NoP is a must, giving 4k, Sisslak (3k) can be substituted for a rain (3kish avg).

That right there is 15k per 30 second battle, average... or 500 DPS. That's not anywhere near 1k DPs, but it's nothing to sneeze at either.

==========

"No way in hell you could do that Jaraman! How the hell do you expect to get 4 tics of NoP and 3 tics of Sisslak in a 30 second fight?!"

Easy. You need to fire off those 2.3 second DoTs as early as you can. If you're pulling with Malos, that 30 second clock isn't ticking until the MT engages... even if you're not pulling, you better be up front casting your 3.8s Malos super early, landing it just as the MT engages.

Now for all you non-TA shaman, you're out of luck here. Because the TA shaman can slow while that gem is refreshing. No matter... cast NoP BEFORE slow. Either way, you catch at least 4 tics for NoP. TA shaman can then cast Sisslak, riding on 3, maybe 4 tics; non-TA shaman may have to Rain instead. (That's right: Malos, NoP, slow, sisslak/rain, in that order)

Non-TA shaman are gonna strain their mana pool with a constant panther x 3, Malos, BoD, NoP, and rain. You may only be able to sustain 12k dmg per fight if you skip the rain. You can save both time and mana if you adopt an Idol strategy.

If your technique is not good enough to manage 2 DoTs successfully, use 4 panthers (9k dmg) and NoP (4k dmg)... you can still manage 14k damage this way (don't forget pup).

Bottomline: it's possible to maintain 12-15k damage in quick group fights, and have fun while doing it. Yes, this has nothing to do with RAID DPS, where we still hurt, but for those who appreciate tips for squeezing out all they can, here you go.... for all the others who do not wish to work for this DPS, you can continue the campaign for more and better shaman DPS. I am on your side for better DPS, but until then, this is a viable and fun workaround for those who would try.

[Giac]

[Chutoi]

[Ungkor]

[Fenier]

[Fenier]

[Scowls]

[Chutoi]

[Skalor]

[Brohg]

[Chutoi]

[Scowls]

[Giac]

[Fenier]

[Chutoi]

[jdthomas]

There was a thread a while back where someone did the math on it. The conclusion was reached that a wizard chaining claw of vox and hitting ether flame on gom procs could do so basically forever.

[Brohg]

Chaos Flame is better than Claw of Vox now, due to Pyromancy. But yeah.

[siludorf]

Also due to the familiar working on both spells =)

[Smint]

Assuming 60% Foci and Fire Flappy

Chaos Flame avg mana 186 avg dmg 2618
Ether Flame avg dmg 10205

10 Chaos Flame for every free Ether Flame
So thats 1856 mana for every 36379 damage

Which is a dmg per mana of 19.60

A mana regen of 82 and a manapool of 14500
A duration of 3600s(or 1hr) gives the wizard 63700 mana over the course of the session
Total dmg done therefore is 1261260

DPS is therefore a whopping 350!!

Assuming Vish and Tacvi clicky that's roughly another 40dps and maybe 40dps from pyro

A little note about being able to chain Chaos flame forever

Chaining Chaos Flame in those conditions wizard would be oom in 11 minutes, doing 697dps
Assuming full raid buffs, no horse, he'd go oom in a little under 16 minutes, doing 707dps

Too lazy to do it all for Claw of Vox too atm

[Brohg]

82 mana regen? run it again with full buffs.

20 worn mana regen
3 innate
3 AA Mental Clarity
8 Allegiant Familiar
3 Ether Skin
20 Voice of Clairvoyance
9 Spiritual Ascendance
9 Steeloak Skin
10 Chaotic Enlightenment
7 Mystical Transvergence
5 Harvest of Druzzil
3 Harvest
22 Chorus of Life

That's 124 without group-specific add-ons like necromancers, beastlords, shadowknights, or an enchanter. Just what's above adds 50% to your overtime estimate. An enchanter in group would only add 6 mana a tic; beastlords, who technically don't have to be in group, add 7 each from Perfections. The other two are much better. Two necros can each add 45/tick. Up to five SK (since they have to be in group) would add 26 each, plus procs from Morguecaller if they use it, which would be an additional 7 before any CFX, up to 12 with full CFX.

Speaking of procs, if mana is the limiter and not agro, meleeing with a Theft of Thought weapon [instead of holding epic & clicking concussion] between spells, estimated very conservatively at 25% of uptime, would add 20 mana/tick. Double that if the wizard has full cfx, possible with demi loot & a bunch of augs. The whole meleeing thing is just a tad disingenous. I probably shouldn't have brought it up, but it is out there.

...but that's all basically in the category of nitpicking.

Crikey don't I love it... but...

I think the big fallacy in the post is that 350dps over the course of an hour, or more particularly 1.26 million damage over that time period, is bad. Sure it looks shabby compared to buffed melee on the back of an Exterminator for 7 hours or something, but in real play, 30% uptime over the course of a play session would garner someone the reputation of a combat-focussed maniac. Downtime isn't just sitting in the Guild Hall, it's also things like zoning, moving between mobs, pulling, casting/clicking any rebuffs... hell, just switching from one mob that dies in front of you to another one standing on top of it waiting induces downtime for melee. Stray seconds are just lost for them, they're 0s. Casters in general, and wizards in particular as the purest of casters, pick up those stray seconds as fuel for higher damage spells, the result being that real wizard output reflects their theoretical capability much more than for melee classes.

[Fenier]