New Page - Debuffs & DoTs

[Samanna]

[Maitz]

And you don't have and healing aa's nor any foci at all so you only get 2.4k heals on a 13k tank no? There's also Spiritual Serenity ( +regen) and if you check lucy it looks like shamans get group in next exp. It's true though recent shman spell were shit all.

But I still think you can't have buffs, heals, slows AND keep dots in line with necros (not that shaman have a way to handle that aggro effectively).

[Samanna]

Heh. I have plenty of healing focus - but so do Clerics and Druids, and the gap only widens if you compare us with comparable focus. However, as you well know, the item-based focus is random, as are crits. But yes, I was surprised when I was picked to be a healer in MPG Group Trials - and I was surprised that it wasn't that hard for me. But then, my heals don't bounce; my dots do, which is one of the concerns here.

[Kianor]

I have a comment about the dot comparison.

Before DoD, you're comparing shaman's 2 best magic and 2 best poison dots against necros 2 best magic and 2 best poison dots.

After DoD, you switch in the new necro dots, Dread Pyre and Corath Venom. Dread Pyre is a fire dot.

It's just the switch of lines there that I think you should be careful about. The necros get an older fire dot, Pyre of Mori, that is better than Blood of Thule which appears on the first comparison.

It's not a major difference, but it's an inconsistency with how you compare dots. If you're including fire dots at all, they should be in both before DoD and after DoD comparisons in order to make your point - you don't want to appear to be picking and choosing only the spells which prove your point.

If you replace Blood of Thule with Pyre of Mori in the comparison, it still makes the case, but without the inconsistency.

[Samanna]

Thank you.

The goal, I think, was to compare the top four dps dots overall (nonancient) for each class. I'll defer to the authors to clarify or edit.

[Maitz]

[Scowls]

[Macnair]

[wsbsteven]

[jdthomas]

I know non-shaman find it hard to understand why shaman get so upset about seeing this stuff in black and white. Trust me, its not a case of 'oh my gawd, necros out dot me!!!'. Its more a result of seeing our class fall a little farther behind with each expansion in every category. Its not that we're gaining in one area to loose in another, we're falling off in each ability that we have.

[Macnair]

[Beafly]

[Alaene]

Long time reader, 1st time poster - forgive my first post being criticism, but I hope it's constructive.

Excellent site, by the way, one of the best class sites out there.

This article is well prepared, but unfortunately comes across as quite one sided. I think the conclusions fit the hypoteses, but I think the hypotheses are flawed from the outset. The main reason for this is the viewing of dots in isolation, where they are only a facet of each class that can cast them.

My two biggest beefs are:

(1) Groupability (Heading II) -

This description sets out that groups require offence, defence and "minor" utility, suggesting that shaman, necros druids may compete equally for dps roles in the latter category.

The classification of "offence, defence and minor utility" is immediately flawed, as any player that has ever put together an xp group knows there are at least three required roles - tank, healer, and slower. An oftimes required fourth role is puller, with utility and DPS filling the remaining slots. shaman secure their role in the group immediately on their ability to slow alone, and to suggest that they must compete for roles based on their dotting ability is ludicrous.

(2) DoT Damage Potential -

This comparison conveniently omits druid dot DPS, and also compares only OOW and DoD era dots. For a fair assessment surely all three dot classes should be involved, and the comparison should reach back to Kunark (as did the resist comparison).



In summary, I think what you're showing is that Necros do insane amounts of damage through their dots in the present game. That shaman have fallen behind is also true - but so have all other classes. The reality is that EQ is a changing game, and the balance between classes should be looked at going forward and not backwards. To suggest that classes should be returned to a kunark (or OOW or whatever) level of balance suggests that they were balanced fairly at those times... and I don't think many would agree that that was so.

Shamens are still well off, in my practical experience of the game. Aside from remaining one of the holy trinity, Shaman DoT DPS is not unrespectable especially when factors such as Panther are taken into account. I don't accept that the nerfing of Panther makes it irrelevant - viewed objectively it is still quite significant.

Just my opinion, ignore or lambast as you will. /bow

Alaene, 70 Druid, Cazic Thule

[Macnair]

[darkpaw]

[jdthomas]

[Alaene]

[Galelor]

[Zaviax]

[dsavereide]

[Giac]

[Scowls]

[Maitz]

[Ungkor]

[Beafly]

*Sets up for practice*



Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans

*reloads*

Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans Shamans...

[Samanna]

Updated to include Necro OoW DoT.

[Fenier]

[Samanna]

Excel.

[Fenier]

[Ssarahh Mas'Scara]

[Samanna]

Fenier, if you could be a bit more explicit, I'd appreciate it.

We're comparing each class landing DoTs without the debuffs of the other classes, only with the DoT caster's own debuffs and resist mods.

[Fenier]

[Samanna]

[Fenier]

[Samanna]

[konarg]

[Shackleton]

[Zaviax]

[Macnair]

[Bigsnack For'Mobs]

I know this is unpopular but the truth is Panther is a DoT that is almost unresistable (-300 chromatic?). I don't get credit for it on the parsers but I usually have panther x 4 (at least) in a group plus another DoT or 2 if the mob lives long enough. My group sure knows the difference when I am using Panther.

I just don't understand when people say it's too much of a pain to maintain Panther instead of a DoT. Panther lasts longer than our poison or magic DoTs, can be applied between pulls, only takes 1 spell slot, and can be "stacked" by casting on different pets/melee. My biggest complaint with Panther is targeting a pet/melee to cast it on and they don't even have the mob targeted. =/

If we want to compare damage with necros then compare Panther x 2, Sisslak, and Yoppa with their top 4 DoTs. Takes shaman 3 spell slots, necros 4. Truth is the shaman will really have Panther x 4 plus the other 2. My guess is shaman are not lagging in this case.

There are times when a shaman is not in a pet/melee group (mainly a few raid situations but some odd groups too) and can't use Panther effectively.

There is no doubt our DoTs and nukes/rains need serious work on resist mods and our nukes/rains need a real upgrade in damage and cast times, but this is mainly to maintain our normal DPS when our use of Panther is limited.