is survivability really still a big issue?

[XeroOmega]

[Tarnnok]

[Dasha]

[Jeones]

[Kriyn Nutzforcatnip]

[Tarnnok]

Okay, so once we have all the healing AA's, 1.5/2.0, and Spiritual Serenity, Can5 and (I'm sorry, PM I can't seem to place), THEN we get to be healers? That's a heck of a cost it seems, but I guess that's what we have to deal with.

[Tordail]

PM = Pained Memory.

[Tarnnok]

Thank you. I was bein' stupid and lookin' for AA's and couldn't match it to anything other than Pottery Mastery or Persistant minion. I was understandably confused. Guess I would have remembered it better if I'd finished off 67 and snagged my ding into 68 last night. Darn the sleep thing! Darn it to heck!

[Dasha]

[Jeones]

[Tarnnok]

[Dasha]

[Kozul]

So we can't heal like clerics.....are people really serious in griping about this is a problem of the shaman class? Shaman healing is better then it ever has been for the most part, at least in the past 4 years. It just annoys me to hear all of these people argue over how we can't heal like clerics and can't dps like a rogue, and that means we suck =/. It is rediculous to compare our healing with that of a cleric, and argue we need to be similar. The reason they can heal better and survive better is because that is their primary function. Now, as far as the gap between the two, I don't see too much problems. If you can't take a few rounds and survive in the content you are raiding in or grouping in, then that is the result of not having the proper gear, it is not a surviveability issue. If you want us to be able to survive more then say 3-4 rounds, then that would make us a tank for the most part, as after 3-4 rounds, you should not have agro generally, and if you do still have agro, your tanks just suck. We can main heal in any of the good xp zones, and not have much risk of death. I don't know who you are grouping with, but there is little risk in my groups, your problem might be that you are grouping with people who shouldn't be there. RSS isn't for level 69's with ldon gear and 40 aa's, if you are arguing that we SHOULD be able to main heal for those type of folks, then that is just silly.

[Beafly]

[Dasha]

[Unmei]

The problem, IMHO, with shaman "main healing" aggro discussions is that they invariably compare a group consisting of:

Shaman, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS, DPS

with a group consisting of:

Cleric, Slow Caster, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS

That's not remotely a fair comparison. The shaman group, almost by definition, MUST be more fragile in that arrangement, due to effectively having combined the "slow caster" and "cleric" into a single group slot. Obviously since the shaman is now generating all the aggro of the slowing class AND all the aggro of the cleric, they're going to get aggro more often than if those two aggro pools were split apart. This is compensated for by the addition of another DPS class, so in theory the group should kill faster in exchange for being more fragile. You can't really expect them to -fix- this.

A better standard for comparison might be comparing groups might be:

Shaman, Enchanter, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS
vs
Cleric, Enchanter, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS

How does the relative survival compare in those circumstances?

Edit: Alternatively, you could compare:

Shaman, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS, DPS

to

Cleric, Tank, DPS, DPS, DPS, DPS

Discuss.

[Tarnnok]

This wasn't meant to turn to the MH idea. Just kept getting brought up. I don't think we should heal like clerics. Far from it. But if anyone thinks we need to have the Main Healer role continue to have us in mind, then heals would have to be adjusted. Me? I'm happy just bein' backup and slowing like mad if needed.

The real gripe it seems is that by doing our basic job functions (Slow/debuff, spot heal backup) we generate an insane amount of aggro. What other class does that without intending to do that? Chanters? Yeah, okay, I'll give you that one. Rogues? Yep. Monks? Sometimes. Wizards? Oh yeah. What's the equalizer in all of that? They all have a way to drop aggro. Boggle, Escape, Feign Death and Concussion if I remember rightly. Shamans generate aggro without hesitation but have no way to stop it other than simply not casting, and that's too much of a risk as it can kill the group/raid if we wait too long.

And truth be told, it's not really our healing that's pulling up our aggro to crazy levels. It's the slow/debuff portion of the front part of the fight. The healing only helps maintain our aggro levels. Our HoT's would help keep that aggro down, but they don't heal enough to keep the tank up in the situations we're talkin' about, so we have to use them as a buffer, and blast heal between. So yeah, we don't have a way of killing our own aggro, and virtually everyone else does if they're not meant to have it.

Hey... maybe that's it. Maybe we're MEANT to have aggro? In which case can we please be on the warrior HP table? Thanks!

[XeroOmega]

[Tekno]

[Kozul]

[Scowls]

[Tarnnok]

[Ungkor]

[Vork]

[Ungkor]

[Tugela]

[Giac]

[Ughbash]

[Unmei]

[Kozul]

[Tarnnok]

[Samanna]

[Tarnnok]

[Ungkor]

[Kozul]

[Tarnnok]

[Jaraman]

[Kozul]

[Dawulfie]

[Maccuul]