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The Spirit Realm • View topic - Shield AC Discussion ... devolves into tanking argument

Shield AC Discussion ... devolves into tanking argument

Information about gear drops and quests, including Epics; also gear checks.

Moderator: Shaman Mods

Postby Scowls » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:07 pm

who casts 1 spell? slow, sting, dot (add cripple is you have the spell gems). I have those spells up always, a cleric would need to specially load numerous stuns (long recast timers), and if they manage to get agro for a few seconds, a tick of the dot brings it back. shaman cast slow regardless of who is tanking, add another near instant sting nuke on inc, a dot after that, and a sting on refresh. most shaman cangank agro from the best of tanks if they want too, but you have to manage agro for the situation, including on deciding who should tank, the cleric or the shaman. I would presume if a cleric and shaman are douing, both end up soloing mobs at the same time from crappy pulls (shaman mob would die first though!)


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Postby Veril » Wed Jan 10, 2007 5:39 am

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Postby Scowls » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:07 am

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Postby Kianor » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:15 am

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Postby Jaraman » Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:28 pm


The best solution is not either/or, but best-of.
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Postby Jaraman » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:47 pm

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Postby Jaraman » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:16 pm

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Postby Jooruus » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:06 pm

-Druids were made to be hated, they serve no other purpose.

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Postby Brohg » Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:25 pm

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Postby Veril » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:17 am

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Postby Fenier » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:07 am

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Postby Fenier » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:28 am

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Postby Jaraman » Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:14 pm

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Postby Neau » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:10 am

- 80 Shaman of Valorguard
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Postby Unmei » Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:55 am

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Postby Retron » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:38 pm

As an aside, with the aid of a guild warrior I spent time parsing Sting aggro. The end result, as expected, is that it's roughly 3K raw hate when you cast it, regardless of whether it crits or not.

Pretty darned handy and it's made the odd occasion when I've had to tank much easier than it was before (slow aggro seemed to be only a few of hundred hate points FWIW)
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Postby Unmei » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:14 pm

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Postby Jaraman » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:09 pm

Here's what I have written down in my little EQ notebook --

Hate counters

Nukes base damage * 0.8 = hate added
e.g. (1000 base dmg nuke) * 0.8 = 800 hate added
DD hate one-shot, unaffected by crits, focus

DOT hate = type of counter (poison, disease, etc) * dmg/tic

=====================

initial aggro is capped at 300 (?)
66+ pally stuns override the initial aggro cap

=====================

Enraging Blow =~ 700 hate (710)
Chaotic Strike4 =~ 575 hate
Incite =~ 1200 hate (1190)

melee per swing hate = damage + damage bonus
e.g. Rusty Short Sword = (4 dmg + 15 dmg bonus) = 19 hate per swing
{offhand weapon no dmg bonus}

Bash = 22 hate max

====================

proc stun = 400 hate .... (also 400 hate for proc slow, proc snare)
cast stun = 1200 hate
Serene Command = 1400 hate
Terror of Thule = 610 hate

ANGER 650

Anger 1 = 200
Anger 2 = 400
Anger 3 = 600
Anger 4 = 200 (?)

Bazu Bellow = 200 hate
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Postby Neau » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:10 am

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Postby Retron » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:24 am

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Postby Ughbash » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:42 am

Tunares' Froggie Shaman,
Hipitey Hop [Watchkeepers]
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Postby Kianor » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:48 am

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Postby Swobu_AB » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:00 am

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Postby Unmei » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:24 am

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Postby Kianor » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:31 am

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Postby Ughbash » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:32 am

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Postby Unmei » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:54 am

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Postby Kianor » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:19 pm

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Postby Veril » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:25 pm

I'm pretty sure that counters still have hate, just not as much as before.
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Postby Unmei » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:20 pm

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Postby Kianor » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:24 am

Enchanter DoTs have debuffs too, which always seems to annoy mobs more than the DoT damage alone...

But yeah, counter hate alone would be difficult to determine. Most spells with counters have something else going on, whether it's a DoT or a debuff. Otherwise, well... what would be the point?

All I can say is it "feels" to me that DoT agro is disproportionate to the damage dealt - i.e. more than an equivalent damage nuke. It would be very hard to test this though, due to it being over a time frame.

It also feels that DoT agro increases as the damage increases due to focus and/or critical ticks. Which is also unlike nuke agro.
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Postby Veril » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:30 am

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Postby Unmei » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:43 am

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Postby Kianor » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:06 am

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Postby Unmei » Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:08 am

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Postby Scalia » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:22 am

Tunare/E'ci: Scabon, 80 Shaman
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Postby seamuus » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:38 am

I don't know any clerics who have as much AC as I do.. they do this weird thing... They aug HP/Mana augs instead of AC augs. I tried to talk them out of it, but they acted like I was speaking greek.

As a side note, and back to the point of this post, I tested the shield ac theory.

I kept my Shielding and Avoidance above the cap and used a 125ac shield and a 25ac shield.

With the same AC on both runs i should have seen a big difference when using the 125ac shield. I did this for about 30 minutes per run (2 runs with each shield).

I know that 30 Minutes isn't really statistically enough data for a real test. My first run was a test before i did a longer run, but the data was flawed so I did another test run... Same result.

I tanked almost exactly the same with both shields... on the second attempt I was slightly better with the 25ac shield. at this point i was pissed and didn't do more.

I used mpg trash mobs for the test mostly because I could tank them unslowed and survive, and i used the same mob for all 4 parses.
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Postby Brohg » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:50 am

unslowed? why?
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