New AAs appearing already - new numbers now appearing

[Unmei]

[Stephen51]

[jdthomas]

[Tugela]

[WaringMcMarrin]

[Beafly]

We knowingly progress slower than other guilds because of three factors. Which I believe are ultimately the keys to our success.

First, we only raid 4 nights a week and only require 30pct attendance for a rolling 30 and 60 period to maintain membership. That means that people don't burn out like they do in the more aggressive raiding guilds. If an individual has RL issues and needs to miss a couple weeks of raiding, it's no problem for us. We maintain the numbers to continue on, and they won't suffer any negative side effects as a result.

Second, we set and achieve gear goals for each expansion. We don't just plow through the content to say that we were first. We take care of our members. This ensures that every member is prepared to be successful in new content, not just the top dkp. For example, We farmed CoA every 5 days for 14 months to ensure that no member gets left behind. We've killed OMM 34 times (also server first).

Third, we don't skip progression or skip around in content. We work through the expansions in order and with purpose. When we reach a viable farm zone, we milk it dry while we work on the next expansion's progression. This chart is a little dated but I think you'll see what I mean.



I'll add one final point about our pace and your perception of slow. Gale wasn't around when the server opened. Gale started raiding WToV in March of 03. We've since established ourselves as one of the premier raiding guilds on Tunare. I don't think many will argue with that. We're successful because we take care of our membership, all the way down to the lowest attendance member.

As for the quality of our membership. I'm not sure what metric you would use to determine. I believe our reputation on Tunare should speak for us well. I've heard rumor that we come off a little snooty, but I think that is to be expected any time you have an organization that is both successful and inwardly focused. Shrug.

As for guilds across the server. I'm pretty sure they are all doing well. We've got a number of active raiding guilds that are all successful. Talisman is working through Ashengate atm. Infinit (public) is working on Frostcrypt. Dai Shan, and Gale of Destruction jsut got into Deathknell (we're a little behind but we're catching up ) Arete, Gospel of the Dawn and Vane are all moving though Demiplane (Dai Shan and Gale only have MM left to complete). Anthem, Fusion and Vane are all in CoA. Undaunted Spirits just broke into Tacvi.

How do you define success?

[Tugela]

Well, clearly your server has way more of a raiding population than Prexus, since there are only two guilds that got past demiplane and only one of those is still active as a raiding unit. Everyone else has got stuck in demi, broke on demi, has just gained entry to Demi, or is sub-Demi in progression. And Demi is content that is what? 4 expansions old? People are getting further and further behind, and that is what the stagnation is. For quite a few of those players, the more expereinced ones, it is over a year that they have been stuck there. Most of that is because generally the second tier guilds have to try and do stuff with suboptimal numbers/class makeup. It's one thing progressing with full raids, its quite another when you have to do that with 40-45 people, often with a fair number of alts and apps.

[WaringMcMarrin]

[bundler]

[WaringMcMarrin]

[Finori]

[Kianor]

[bundler]

ok, so the end game is being beaten, but by very few. my point was that by allowing the less proficient players the chance to improve their abilities they can become uber enough to overcome their personal skill limitations enough to defeat content that was conceived with the truly great players, using gear and abilities either current or from previous expansions, in mind. this keeps the cashflow from those not top notch players heading into son'y's pockets enough that they keep grinding out new, more challenging content to keep the few truly great players hanging in there AND it grants those not great players a chance to progress later on after they obtain gear and abilities from expansions beyond where they currently raid.
when eq was first out, it was supreme, the best of a sparse world of rpg-type games. now, there are many rivals for the consumer attention. with every eq player that leaves, it reduces the talent pool to draw from for raiding.
if any disagree with my contention that many people currently playing NEED the uberness granted from newer expansions to defeat older raid targets, explain why so few in eq-land have beaten end game content.

[Kianor]

[Veril]

[Brohg]

Just for trivia's sake in support of what Kianor is saying, I'll throw out there that the first guild to beat Overlord Mata Muram in CoA (game wide) had 202 recorded attempts to get their first "W", when the expansion was current. That's two hundred failed attempts to beat the current content. Like Kianor and like everyone else who's actually made it in a high end raiding guild, I've seen people get frustrated and pack it in after just two wipes. Those aren't folks I'm currently guilded with; it takes a different attitude to push out the boundaries of what is "high end". That attitude, and, very significantly, the time needed to put the attitude to good use, is what separates uber raiders from those who aren't. There's a marginal degree of intelligence needed, but it's not magical ninja skillz, or any innate character power.

[WaringMcMarrin]

[Unmei]

[Brohg]

[bundler]

[Tugela]

[Kianor]

[WaringMcMarrin]

[Stephen51]

[WaringMcMarrin]

[Kianor]

[Ughbash]

[Kianor]

[Beafly]

[Fenier]

[belaar]

[Tugela]

[Shammy 101]

[Tugela]

Apparently the new expansion is going to be called "Secrets of Faydwer", according a discussion here

[Tugela]

Focus effects don't stop working when you level up, they only stop working on higher spells, which you are not obliged to use. That is a non-argument as far as decreasing resource requirements for raids through a level increase is concerned. Higher level spell effects which increase general power (such as buffs/debuffs) are not affected significantly by foci anyway.

[Kianor]

Tugela, you are right that focus effects still work just as well on old spells, it's only the new ones that it affects. However, when you gain 5 levels, you're typically fighting things 5 levels higher too, and you need to improve your relative power accordingly, not just your absolute power. Melee effects don't degrade with level, only caster focus effects.

Also, when you level up and get new spells, it's disappointing when the old ones still work better because of focus effects. For example, Ancient: Wislik's Mending and Ahnkaul's Mending - levelling to 75, I still used the 70 heal because my spell haste, healing and mana preservation foci worked fully on it meaning it healed for more, was more efficient and faster than the new spell.

That is disappointing when you level up, you want to be able to use your new spells. The prospect of having to get a whole new set of focus effects in order to maintain your *relative* efficiency and power, is very offputting to a lot of people.

So the argument that you don't lose anything is strictly true, but meaningless - you don't lose absolute power, but you lose relative power, and that's what it's all about.

[Shammy 101]

[Ughbash]

[Veril]

[Ughbash]