GoM and the new patch....

[Giac]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

[Laodian]

[Brohg]

The wizard thing:

For review, Mana regen:
3 innate
3 Mental Clarity 3
20 "Flowing Thought" (worn Mana Regen)
10 Chaotic Enlightenment
3 Shield of Dreams
10 Spiritual Ascendance
9 Steeloak Skin
20 Clairvoyance
22 Chorus of Life
7 Mystical Transvergence
3 Greater Concentration

For wizard add:
8 Allegiant Familiar
3 Harvest (really 3.5, but I fudge downward because of 10sec stun)
5 Harvest of Druzzil

Non-situational (barring wierdness like Epoch Conviction AE): 126 mana/tick. This will be the number referenced below. The rest of this is added for reference, so that you don't think I forgot your favorite situational bs.

If outdoors, add:
1 sitting
18 Meditate Skill (252)

For each Shadowknight you steal from cleric groups, add:
13 Inruku's Bite
13 Ancient Bite of Muram (really 13.5, fudged downward to appease "omg real life" posts)

For each Necromancer you steal from cleric groups, add:
30 Mind Wrack

For each Beastlord who's targetting your group instead of clerics (cause they're dumb like that, or they'd be shaman ) add:
9 Perfection of Spirit

Further mana regen is possible using Theft of Thought weapons from Vex Thal. For simplicity's sake, we'll assume non-casting time is spent clicking Concussion instead of meleeing. Tbh, I haven't done the math to see if swinging is even worth it between casting as an aid to mana regen. Recall that you trade Meditation ticks for it if you're outdoors. I know that it beats medding if done full-time. There's no medding indoors anyhow. Bottom line, too many factors to consider in an overall mana regen analysis, even if you arbitrarily assign things like full cfx that can't actually be achieved by casters, and certainly are no part of ideal wizard outfits.

The Spell:
Claw of Vox
Decrease Hitpoints by 1375
Mana: 208
Casting Time: 5

208 mana
-10% Specialize:Evocation 200
-10% Spell Casting Mastery 3
-10% Gift of Mana 3
-10.5% Avariciousness of Scowls
---------
124 mana

5 sec
-23% Alacrity of the Aneuk
-10% Aura of Devotion
-10% Quick Damage 3 AA
---------
2.85 sec
+2.25 sec recast delay
---------
5.1 sec

Every 1 in 10 casts, though, Claw of Vox mysteriously . Wierd.

8 sec
-23% Alacrity of the Aneuk
-10% Aura of Devotion
-10% Quick Damage 3 AA
---------
4.56 sec
+2.25 sec recast delay
---------
6.81 sec

9/10ths of one plus 1/10th of the other = 5.27sec average cycle time.

124 mana/1cast * 1cast/5.27 sec * 6sec/1tick = 141 mana/tick

15mana/tick difference, if you never have even 0.1sec lag. That, gentlemen, is what we call "free damage."

whoops, wrong thread.

[Scowls]

[Tobyus]

[Scowls]

[Brohg]

[Scowls]

[Brohg]

[belaar]

[Gonlok]

Manaburn is not 65+

[Brohg]

Feel free to correct me on this, but it's my understanding that the GoMana savings is on any spell, not just those that would trigger it. Unless they change that, too, which would be entirely appropriate.

[Gonlok]

blergh, you're correct, I was thinking backward.

Though does it work on AAs that cost mana? I don't have either.

[Grendalkhan]

[Brohg]

[Giac]

[dsavereide]

Thanks for the spell mana cost analysis Brohg. Sorry if I'm misreading it, but it seems you counted the mana savings for GoM twice. Once as an extral 10% off the big heal and then further on down, saying that one in ten would be Desperate Renewal.

For those of you that still think the big heals chance to proc would make up for mana cost over CH, I just can't see that as practical. You'd be gambling on perfectly timed GoM procs that let you take full advantage without expecting any significant advantage even if they were.

The recast on Pious Light (dont have the ancient, not using those numbers) is 2.25, which brings the total cast time to 5.25 (ie. before you're ready to cast anything else). CH is ten seconds with the same 2.25 recast. So if you have to cast twice, it's not faster.

If I'm playing with my usual tank, 16k hp, I try to time CH so it lands at 40-50%, so if get spiked, it will still land at 20-30. If he gets spiked twice, I still hope to land it. So that means it typically does 7-9k, with the occasional 12k heal. With PL I'm going to get 6-7k with no bonus coverage for spike damange, which means it will take two casts of PL. Two casts is about 2.5 times the mana cost. Basically, I may have the time, but I'm not going to have the mana to be casting other things. Not normal situations.

And since the recast on desperate renewal is thirty seconds, one cannot assume that you'll be able to cast it every time GoM procs. I frequently see a couple procs close together, which means the second one has to be used on elixir or another PL. And unless your group is steady chain pulling, we need to factor in the GoM proc with no mobs in camp. Again, probably an exlixir to help with next mob when it gets here. There is also no way I'm going to use Desperate Renewal as my first heal on any mob. A sure way to die fast is to let the tank engage at 50% then land a mega heal 2 seconds later.

I'm sure this will rock on some raids, but for normal groups I'm sticking to CH as much as I can.

[Laodian]

Wow, the thread that I started on the official forums has gotten some made hate from people. They honestly think this ability works great for everyone. They also think those of us who used it are exploiters and are justly nerfed. I will ask you guys again if you have an opinion on this please post a reply. We only have a short window before this will devolve to the bottom of the stack yet again.

I doubt we will actually effect a change, but I will be damned if I am not going to try.

I just want the ability totally fixed, as in it procs off of normal 65+ debuffs and hots etc OR put it back to way it was before UNTIL they fix it OR refund my AA's.

I do not really need the 9 aa's that badly, but I am pissed as hell they labeled us exploiters and nerfed our only real chance to proc it at all. Meanwhile the spells that should proc it like our HoT's, have no chance....

[belaar]

[Brohg]

[Laodian]

[Beafly]

So I'm in the shower this morning thinking about this whole mess and had what I think is a lightbulb. This whole wizard discussion brought to light that, in the context of the WIZARD class we can discuss GoM as an almost straight 10pct mana savings. Since we know they have some nukes that are expensive, some that are less expensive and that they are not stupid, we can actually attribute a > 10% mana savings from GoM but that's not important.

This savings (and the true power of GoM) is based on two things, the type of spell they cast (whether or not it procs GoM), and the FREQUENCY they cast it. The frequency I believe is the key here, and the component that differentiates the gain from GoM class by class. Every class that has GoM, has spells that can proc it. We can all chain cast those spells in order to recieve GoM procs. But durring normal game play some classes cast spells that proc GoM with greater frequency. Telling a shaman he has to chain nuke in order to take advantage of the AA's he spent on GoM is just as silly as if we told wizards to chain buff themselves with Ether Shield to proc GoM. Neither class could do that and be functional in their role.

So, if we're looking to provide class balance with the current form of GoM, we have to look at the casting habbits of each of the classes and not just the types or number of spells available to that class to proc it.

I believe the easiest way to do this would be to collect logs from each class on the frequency of the spells they cast and compare them. This would tell us how useful GoM is for each class and if my guess is correct, may provide the fuel we need to get GoM fixed more quickly. We should be able to come up with some standard numbers like the following:

*THESE ARE NOT ACCURATE*
Shaman
Yoppa's Mending - 6 casts/hour
Spiritual Serenity - 22 casts/hour
Pained Memory - 50 casts/hour
Balance of Discord - 25 casts/hour
etc.

Wizards
Claw of Vox - 22 casts/hour
Corona Flare - 11 casts/hour
Ether Shield - 1 casts/hour
Meteor Storm - 5 casts/hour
etc.

Druids
etc.

[Brohg]

[Giac]

[Samanna]

[Laodian]

I would like to agree with Brogh but unfortunately my reading of what he said is it is a "mabye" thing. Not only do we not know when it will occur, it is still a question of "if" it will occur.

Between the re-opening of accounts, the new Titanium, Holiday stuff and the February expansion I doubt they will be fixing anything they consider "optional". Balancing our class and/or giving a crap we are screwed (yet again) has always been optional at best.

[Brohg]