The Spirit Realm

So the expansion has been out like what, a week? I see a ton of posts about it was with most expansions that come out but it seems that our thoughts on many issues are scattared throughout the board. In the spirit of getting out Collective thinking "Groove" on I would like to propose that we address our DOD issues in one or two threads. The main reason being is since Grimbear is stepping down the next person to take the job could just use this thread, or another, as a main source of information to take to Sony. Putting all negative doubts, or adleast most of them aside to possibly get some sort of response or /gasp some action taken on our spells and AA.

This list of concerns by no means represents the majority of this board. All it is so far is just some of the issues that I see as a player and as a frequent visitor to the Spirit Realm.

DOD Spell Issues:
LVL 68 spell : Lingering Sloth - Currently it is broke on live but fixed on test. The purpose of this spell being the ability for a shaman to buff people which grants them the innate ability to slow a mob with a disease based slow. Now granted the proc rate on the test ( and soon to be fixed) version is decent but from the way mobs mitigate slow and the percentage of slow the spell actually does makes most to believe it will be useless besides a device for mele to gain aggro.

LVL 69 spell : Breath of Antraygus - This seems to be a decent spell for the most part but there is some uncertanity about how well it performs overall given the amount of situations it could be usefull in.

LVL 70 spell : Hungry Plague - The two main issues people have with this spell is the percent it does slow and also the recast time associated with it. I have read that some people who currently own it talk about aggro issues and the fact that Vindictive Spirit is light years ahead of HP is terms of its usefulness.

DOD AA Issues :

Greater Rabid Bear - Early feedbak indicated an AA that reminded people of something that they would see under the dumptster of a fast food joint. A little refinement later and the 3 tiers of GRB got reduced to one along with some added upgrades. It seems the jury is still out on this one because some people think the regen is a great bounus and others think the reuse on the ability is too long.

Ancestral Guard - Appearantly this was a byproduct of the survivability AA that was drafted. The general view seems to be that the duration of the ability is too short (which seems to be getting fixed) and the rune should be for more than 5k.

I'm sure there is more to add here

-----------------------------

My personal feedback on most of this is we got a serious balance problem with our slows. I am not just talking about mitigation here either. Instead I am talking about magic based vs disease based. All of a sudden we are getting slammed with disease based slows which to me means that the intention was to give us an alternative resist line to do our job. Ad least I would like to believe so and if this is the case then I definetely feel it should be a concern on our top 10 list. IF you break it down we have a magic slow that lasts for 7+ minutes. Then we have a couple fast magical slows that give us significant resist adjustments. In OOW we recieved the mother of all AE slows which not only helped us handle multiple mobs but also gave us a slight cushion for when we got aggro. Now with DOD we got some hodge podge collection of disease based slows that no one even considers worth their name. So what message is Sony sending to use? Hell if I know and I am sure we can all bash the hell out of them but that horse is long since dead in my eyes. One thing is for sure though and that is if Sony is going to give us a Disease based line fo slows they need to be able to function just as well as our maigc based line or should adleast come close. So my thinking is like this, Grummus is to Turgurs what Sloth should be to balance (Discord / Nihil) as hungry Plague should be to Vindictive Spirit.

I understand there are several ways one could look at this but my angle is this. Pretty much every other class has multiple spells with different resists to do the same job. Mitigation aside, if one of our primary functions is to slow then why should we not have the means to do it effectively through different resists and have each resist be as effective as its counterpart. I kind of understand the thought behind how HP and sloth are intended to work but in real game play they don't do the job even remotely effective as our magic based counter parts do. Holy mother of God how I would love a DR based Balance of Discord in zones like Rifts and MPG.

As most of you who read this forum know I am a fan of bear form. I personally think GRB is OK but it could be made better. Such as if the tainted bite thing went away and in its place a poison or disease foci could be added and it could be linked to the whole " rabid " theme of the AA. I think something like this would make the people who want a solid bear form happy as well as the people who want more DPS capability.

So anyway, sorry for being long winded but I still believe that hoarding all our DOD issues in one or two threads would benefit us in getting some issues solved and make it easier for the next class rep to pick up a couple balls instead of a bag full.

>>DoD Spells:

I don't think we need another slow, unless they give us a 75% disease slow. I say chuck both Hungry Plague and Lingering Sloth out the window and start fresh. Forget reverse mitigation. Forget slows (mostly).

>Hungry Plague - If they want to give us something infectious (which seems to be a new trend, considering the Enchanter infection mez) then give us an infectious version of Malos. Exact same spell it is now, but working the way our slows do. That could also solve the issues of the retardedly long recast on the spell.

>Lingering Sloth - Either make this spell a single target 75% disease slow, which isn't COMPLETELY useless but entirely situational, or if they went to keep it somewhat close to the original, change it so that it doesn't give that craptastic 25% slow but procs a small, stackable HoT on the tank a la Ancestral Aid, so that if a Cleric tosses PE or whatever on them it gets a little extra kick. If this infringes on Druids too much we have the option of having it proc an overhaste or even an extra smack of Enraging Blow and then having it disappear. Nice for helping tanks get that initial aggro, and then gives Druids a chance to use theirs as well in conjunction.

>SuperDuperShortBusNuke - Either fix the poison cone spell so that it hits the things smack dab in front of us or remove it completely and give us the rain heal spell that was proposed. Personally, I say just fix the spell so it hits what's in front of us. No one else got a healing upgrade that I've heard about (I haven't been keeping up either) so something that beneficial might be asking too much.

>>DoD AAs:

>Ancestral Aid - Make it proc a mem-blur when it fades and leave it the way it is now and I'll be happy with it. That gives us the option of, once every 15 minutes, mitigating our incoming damage and dropping aggro.

>Rabider Bear - Remove it, and replace it with an upgrade to the Cannibalization AA line that either reduces re-use time or doubles it in power. This AA is, by far, the most commonly-pressed AA key I have ever had, and it's getting so old it had a guest slot on the Golden Girls as Blanche's new love interest Carl Ramboné.

>Hungry Plague - Replace this with Group Panther. DONE

>Lingering Sloth - When fixed, the ONLY real use for this spell would be to help Tank keep agro. (not much of a spell)

>Breath of Antraygus - Replace with Group SLTW. DONE

>Ancestral Aid - This AA has saved my behind countless times so far, or at least made me die slower. I do not feel that it needs to be changed into something else.

>Greater Rabider Bear - The only reason to have this would be for the 250hp regen. The meleeing part of it really doesnt add much DPS anyhow, its more of a very small bonus. It would have been much easier if they would have just made this AA a 6 min regen. At least then, I would not be embarased with the crappy looking bear form.

Every shaman that I asked would love the idea to just change those spells all together.

i agree, change the spells completely, group panther, group SLTW would be great, hell, replace lingering sloth with the druid heal proc one, and then i'd love our DOD spells.

GRB is an embarament. The only reson to get it is the hot, and if yoiu look at it as only an hot, it's enormously overpriced and underpowerfull and with bad side effects.

Ancestral Guard really needs to mitigate more total damage with higher ranks and last longer, because right now it's only saved my life once out of dozens and dozens of times i've used it. It either runs off too soon, cant get it up fast enought, or whatever. Unlike almost every other clases "survival' spell or aa or whatever, AG doesnt have any agro reduction, so if we're getting hit, popping AG means we're STILL getting hit, and have to just get lucky to channel a heal to ourselves or whatnot. AG needs help IMO, and quite a bit.

Hungry Plague - replace with a Malos effect that spreads. DONE

Lingering Sloth - 25% slow is rediculous, have it proc Malosinia or Crippling Spasm for 3 ticks instead (at least then we can remove those spells from our line up for 8 mins). DONE

Breath of Antraygus - Replace with good ole true PBAE. if the frontal cone was to limit effectiveness, fine, just reduce the radius of the PBAE effect. DONE

Ancestral Guard - Does not help 1 bit with survivability since there is no mechanism to lose aggro. Extend the duration to 3 ticks and increase the absorbance of level 3 to 10k (no point having a 3 tick duration if the 5k is chewed thru in 2-3 hits), and have it include the "Sentinel" effect the Cleric AA has for the duration of the spell (3 ticks or 10k absorbed). For those that don't know, "Sentinel" drops the cleric to the bottom of a mobs aggro list. DONE.

Greater Rabider Bear - Remove the illusion, remove the melee, lower the AA cost and just leave the self only HoT that stacks with everything (can be used while on a mount, with GRB the illusion prevents being mount usable). DONE.

Not ground breaking, not over powered ... just some simple changes that would resolve some of the issues I see with the crap we got with this expansion ... as it stands, I can't even be bothered attempting to get the new spells .... and I am more excited about an AA every caster gets (Gift of Mana), then I am over any of the Shaman specific AAs ....

Tek

I happen to like the idea of having a true AE DD. the other spells and abilities are near useless.

Hungry Plague - Replace this with Group Panther. agree

>Lingering Sloth - When fixed, the ONLY real use for this spell would be to help Tank keep agro. (not much of a spell) i dont see how "your spell would not take hold" spam on the tank generates agro...but ok, was more useful when it was broken

>Breath of Antraygus - Replace with Group SLTW. DONE

>Ancestral Aid - i love this AA, if you dont know how to use it, or only bought LVL, thats your problem, this spell rocks

>Greater Rabider Bear - just like anc aid, i use them solely for the regen, 350 regen!!!! thats insane, and 350 regen for 5 minutes OMG! dont mess with this one, it will save your butt. i cant count the number of times i had to haul ass with a train on me, and hit anc aid cause it was my only insta cast hot i had, ot i can click it and RB for a great hot...and when tanking it staks with every other HOT, epic, anc aidd RB and serenity

The cone AE of Breath of Antraygus allows imo a person to more effectively control what they want to hit.
With rains and PB AE, if there is a Mezzed/Rooted/Charmed mob anywhere near your target, you simply cannot cast.
With the cone however you can position yourself accordingly and let the acid fly.
My only gripe with the spell would be its high mana cost, but aside from that, changing it to a rain or pb ae would limit its usefulness.

Hungry Plague is great for trival content, but damn near useless in higher end. During anguish runs and RS royals the spell was resisted 75% of the time,
even with a prelimary debuff. The recast needs to be severly adjusted for this spell to have any true use.

Lingering Sloth's 25% slow is quite insulting imo. If it were longer lasting perhaps I wouldn't mind, but to dedicate a spell gem for a 25% slow that needs to
constantly be refreshed? The potency of the slow or duration needs to be adjusted for this one to be of value.

A mate used his GRB on RSS Queen run last night in a rough situation (happens /shrug) and his bear corpse literally covered half the raid's corpses. I don't understand why they can't keep the shrink tag on you once it's there, regardless of bear illusion. I agree with the "remove the bear illusion" people.

Want a cool effect that wont screw with us raiding shaman? Turn us semi-transparent for the duration of the effect and call it "Greater Rabid Spirit". OoOoOOOO!

Someone getting Ancestral Aid mixed up with Ancestral Guard?

What're people's opinions of the other AAs from DoD? I've got Crit Mastery and Precog maxed, trying to decide whether I should get Ancestral Guard, SCS+ or GoM. I like crit mastery, except I gain agro off a well geared and AAed Paladin whenever I use 3 dots. Now he's bugging me to get SCS line of AAs, but I want to be able to hold agro when I want.

Would be nice to have a spell graphic of a bear hover over you while in rabid bear. Still needs other work before I'll buy it though.

Some guildies have reported GoM going off from shrink wands and mod rods. Neither of those make sense - both are under lvl 65, and shrink doesn't do damage or heal anyone. /boggle

I didn't want to say anything though, cuz I'm afraid they'll make it stop working off of canni

So far I like AG although I do wish it would soak up more damage or last a lil longer. It saved me last night when I was dumb enough to try HP on a whim in trial of endurance and a broken mez meant the mob would come right for me. I had tried HP before during Hanvar, but there were a ton of knights around to tag aggro off of me - I think it only landed once anyway. Last night was another story...

Just wanted to share this little instance with you all. Note near instant aggro after casting HP...and then me casting VS and AG3 to try and save my ass I used to use VS to buy time when I had aggro anyway (for the mitigation deal). Even the ranger was healing me during all this lol. The whole time HP is still trying to land on stuff (and not even slowing anything) and get me more aggro. AG3 + VS helped me live through that 30ish seconds of mob hate.

[Tue Sep 20 20:44:51 2005] You begin casting Hungry Plague.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:53 2005] Your Wristguard of Chaotic Essence sparkles.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:53 2005] Your spell did not take hold.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2005] A dragorn antagonist tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2005] a dragorn antagonist was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2005] A dragorn antagonist hits YOU for 1706 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2005] a dragorn antagonist was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:55 2005] A dragorn antagonist hits YOU for 1526 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:57 2005] You gained raid experience!
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:58 2005] Galgond tells the group, 'NI to Thlayli'
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:59 2005] Your target resisted the Hungry Plague spell.
[Tue Sep 20 20:44:59 2005] Your target resisted the Hungry Plague spell.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:02 2005] Galgond has healed you for 3013 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:02 2005] You are infused with the power of nature.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:05 2005] You begin casting Vindictive Spirit.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:05 2005] Your spell did not take hold.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:05 2005] Your target resisted the Hungry Plague spell.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:07 2005] Your spell is interrupted.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:08 2005] You begin casting Vindictive Spirit.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] A dragorn defender is enveloped by vindictive spirits.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your ancestors protect you.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] Your spell was partially successful.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:10 2005] You gained raid experience!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] Your spell did not take hold.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] a dragorn defender has been awakened by Drecon.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 403 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 733 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] A dragorn defender tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:11 2005] A dragorn defender tries to bash YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] The spirit of your ancestor fades into the ether.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 522 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1466 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 626 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:13 2005] A dragorn defender tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:14 2005] A rift in space tears open and a monstrosity is pulled through.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:15 2005] You begin casting Spiritual Serenity.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1706 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1346 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] A dragorn defender tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:16 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 566 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:17 2005] Quinlin tells the group, 'SW on Thlayli'
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] Your spell is interrupted.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] Your spell did not take hold.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] Galgond tells the group, 'Casting Chlorotope on Thlayli!'
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1706 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:18 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 566 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:19 2005] You have healed Thlayli for 1596 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:19 2005] Your wounds heal.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:19 2005] Quinlin has healed you for 1887 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:19 2005] You are bathed in sylvan water.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 746 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1106 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] A dragorn defender tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:20 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 1706 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] A dragorn antagonist tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] A dragorn antagonist tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] a dragorn antagonist was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] A dragorn antagonist hits YOU for 746 points of damage.

At this point I finally remembered AG...

[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] You begin casting Ancestral Guard.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:21 2005] You call upon ancestral spirits for protection.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] Galgond has healed you for 3877 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] Your wounds close.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] You are stunned!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] A dragorn defender kicks YOU for 128 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 307 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 142 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:22 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 247 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:24 2005] You are unstunned.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:24 2005] Galgond tells the group, 'Casting Chlorobon on Thlayli!'
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:24 2005] Quinlin has healed you for 1968 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:24 2005] You are bathed in sylvan water.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:25 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:25 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 322 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:25 2005] A dragorn defender tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:25 2005] a dragorn defender was hit by non-melee for 72 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:25 2005] A dragorn defender hits YOU for 427 points of damage.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:28 2005] Quinlin tells the group, 'SW on Thlayli'
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:30 2005] You are bathed in sylvan water.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:32 2005] Your Vindictive Spirit spell has worn off of a dragorn defender.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:32 2005] Your Vindictive Spirit spell has worn off of a dragorn defender.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:33 2005] Quinlin tells the group, 'SW on Quinlin'
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:34 2005] The protection of the spirits departs.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:35 2005] A rift in space tears open and a monstrosity is pulled through.
[Tue Sep 20 20:45:36 2005] You tell srshammychannel:4, 'OK...DO NOT use HP here lol'

I don't know why HP didn't go duration, because I don't see anymore lines of text having to do with the spell. Duration is supposed to be 1 minute and there were definitely more mobs coming into the camp after I cast it (that's what the 'A rift in space' is), and I have detremental spell extension. /shrug

I also doubt Sony is going to throw them away either. What we got is what will probably stay and asking for new spells is to replace these has a snowballs chance in hell. We are better off asking for tweaks to what we got in order to make them usefull more than anything else.

Hungry Plague needs to have a negative 100 DR check on it to be a viable AE slow option. The recast time alone demands it in order for it to be a dependable spell to load. The slow percentage on sloth needs to be upped. It would be a bad ass spell if it was a 75% slow proc. Then the optimal use for it would be in groups where we are the main healer. Sloth would let us concentrate on healing, not worrying about slow aggro, and not having to worry about recast times on spells.

I actually welcome a second line of disease based slows if they are as dependable as the magic based. It would be easier to slow A LOT of mobs that have very high MR such as diodites in MPG and mobs in Riftseekers. A couple solid DR based slows would help us get around some of the racial resist modifiers mobs currently have in the game.

Again you are completely ignoring the fact that an enchanter can have the rune up already, and ready, and if they start getting hit, use it again, for twice the effect. In addition, unlike shaman, enchanters have fast casting time spells that they can use to lose agro / save themselves during the time they're NOT being hit and DONT have to channel.

You completely fail to account for, ok your'e at 4k hp, mob looks at you funny, you take 2k damage from the first 2 hits before you even get to press AG, now you're at 2k hp and you mitigate 5k of the next 6666 damage, well crap, now you're at 333 health, havent been able to channel a heal to save yourself. you smashed ancestral aid and hit your epic when your heal got interupted, yay, you get healed for 800, you're at 1100 hp or so, then get whacked again by one more round of melee and your'e dead.

Runes are in an entierly differnet league than AG. Believe me i've used both, AG has only saved me once, ever, since i bought it and i've used it a LOT.

I am not sure you understand low health aggro(even though it's pretty straight forward), Unmei, but I might be wrong as I didn't read your post too accurately.

You have already partially stepped away from your initial claim that this AA was damn good and turned it into it's a good first step into the right direction., which I am fine with and all I wanted to hear from you actually.

I am asking for one of the 4 alternative upgrades to AG I presented in the other thread, and I don't feel I am asking for too much(DotAS wasn't asking for too much either, but since we don't seem to have been able to express our need for that AA with adequate emphasis, there's little we can do now that we are working on AG as the basis).

In regards to your role, I am sorry to say, but you were relegated to a buffer and slower more (often) than a crowd controller, as most of the crowd control has been happening out of camp, on the pull, where many classes are superior to the Enchanter. Luckily you are one of the classes which still remained very desirable, as you offer secondary abilities that are very convenient for the lazy people of today's EQ, although I understand the frustration some of the old timers of you suffer from.