by Cromagnon » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:10 pm
I'm always hesitant to come in another class's section and start talking especially since I've never personally played a shaman past level 10, but I feel there is alot of disingenous information here:
1) Can you honestly sit there and TRY to compare the power of your slow with a druids attack debuffs or a mage's air pet's stun? I mean this is just ludicrous, there is NO comparison to a slow, even mitigated. A slow (even mitigated) reduces a mobs dps output by adjusting the mob's delay, it does NOT matter one iota whether that mob is a grey con, or a red con, if the spell sticks, it gives a set % reduction, no ifs ands or butts about it (and this is taking into account slow mitigation, a grey con and red con that both mitigate to the same point, are still set values of delay restricted dps).
Now you are TRYING to compare that to an attack debuff, which if you've ever read anything about, is only of use for dps reduction on mobs who's attack is not trivial in comparison to the tanks armor class. If you take a druid and debuff full attack as much as able on a red mob, you will notice a very comparable effect to a slow class as far as mitigating incoming damage in the form of restricting the mobs attack value and thus its melee output. Now take a grey con mob (who's attack is already trivial in comparison to the tanks armor class more than likely unless the tank it teh suck) and fully debuff its attack, and you will notice almost ZERO change in incoming dps, as the tank is already getting hit for minimum damage a majority of the time. I'm going to counter here the response i already know that is coming "if its a grey con mob, why do you even need to reduce incoming damage" well that was jsut for example, substitute in a lblue or dblue mob for the grey con, and if again the tank is on par for the content when it comes to Armor Class values, these mobs are already trending towards minimum hits, and thus the effect has diminishing returns. Challenging content = attack debuffs have value, non challenging content (think xp grinding) and attack debuffs have huge diminishing returns.
Not to mention something you never even addressed, that a shaman/chanter / beastlord have 1 spell to cast (or even not cast if you consider sloth line of defensive slow procs) versus a series of druid debuffs that take 3-5 casts to enable. Not to mention the fact that a shaman can slow a mob then proceed to heal, versus a druid who can't take the time to debuff the mobs' attack if he is the primary healer, it just isn't reasonable. Really like comparing apples and oranges here.
2) I mean seriously, then the spectre of "i can't dot because mobs die so fast" comes up and...ummm wow is all I have to say. You mean to tell me that mobs are dying so fast, and you want to contribute dps? Why? Just so you can look better on a parse? Please...If they are dying so fast then your groups dps is already screaming, you are doing quite a bit of attributable dps for every single melee in group (pet or PC) as well as providing restrictions on incoming dmg, and helping the group survive through your utility. Sounds like you really want your cake and to eat it too, and shit this ain't no birthday party, be happy with the icecream in the bowl in front of ya.
I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, but sheesh, shammy's are still one of the most powerful classes in this game, and just because you aren't unbalanced in your favor so significantly anymore, doesn't mean that a shaman is hurting by any means. I play a warrior, and a well played shaman in my group is always welcome, and unless the person has no clue how to play their toon, there is an EXTRAORDINARY difference between a buffbot shammy and a real live shammy in group. Sorry guys I just don't see it, the only real complaint i think you guys have is that your doggie needs a big DPS upgrade, there is NO reason in my mind for an SK or ENCH pet to out dps dog dog, its just ludicrous the move sony made in letting shaman pets stagnate so much while giving huge boosts to ench and sk's. At the very least the three should be on par IMO. IDK this expansion seems to be a great leveling field, the shamans and zerkers see the stagnation as nerfs, but really its just that these two classes alone excelled above and beyond a level of "balance" with the other classes, and needed to be brought into line with everyone else. It never feels good to be in that situation, but come on, be realistic and realize you've had it good for so long, and be happy that other classes you group with are going to be contributing equally to what you are to your groups progression whatever that may be.
Sorry for the long windedness, but have been watching this thread a few days and finally couldn't stand not saying anything any longer and felt I had to chime in. Feel free to comment, flame whatever it is ya want to do, more than willing to backup my statements with fact, and if proven wrong I'll admit it, but I have very strong anectdotal evidence from my experiences in the world of Norrath. Shammy's kick ass, nough said.
By Account:
Notfit 82 Gnome Enchanter
Cromagnon 82 Ogre Warrior
Mahlon 71 Dark Elf Wizard
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Dartil 90 Capri Wearing Druid
Cromkins 71 Ogre Beastlord
Locusta 66 Drakkin Rogue