Important Posts from eqlive boards

[Ungkor]

[Jaraman]

[Sharok]

[Tugela]

[Tugela]

[Brohg]

[Veril]

[Ughbash]

[Fenier]

[Boleslav]

[Beafly]

[Boleslav]

I didn't see any mention of how FD is handled with this. If a PC can use FD to drop aggro and then enter the resting state while the fight is still going on that would be a big advantage.

Boleslav

[Tugela]

[Vork]

[Ughbash]

[Tugela]

[Yirrudno]

[Beafly]

Below for comparison of downtime. If I'm missing a factor I apologize, chances are it will be a relative change to the comparison though.

General Caster Resting Mana Regen (per tick)
Base = 3
Meditate (horseback) = 21
Worn Mana Regeneration = 20
Mental Clarity 3 (AA) = 3
Steel Oak = 9
Spiritual Ascendence = 10
Voice of Clairvoyance = 20
Maelin's Methodical Mind (clicky) = 8
Chorus of Life (Bard Song) = 22
Mod Rod = 7
Max Mana Regen = 123

There are a few other odds and ends that specific classes get and MMM clicky and Chorus of Life are upgraded. But that pretty much sums it up. Any caster with a 12k mana pool and the above regeneration capabilities will go from out of mana to full mana in 9.7 minutes.

Shaman Resting Mana Regen (per tick)
Max Mana Regen = 123
AA Canni = 35
Ancient Canni = 117
Shaman Max Mana Regen = 275

A shaman will obviously fill the same 12k mana pool faster, in 4.4 minutes.

Necros fall somewhere in the middle.

Now let's look at the situation with the rest regen available, for both group and raid situations (30 second and 5 minute timers respectively). All casters get their current resting mana regen for the duration of the timer and then will jump to a flat 3.5% of their mana pool per tick until they are full mana.

General Caster Regen During Timer
Group
Max Mana Regen = 123mana/tick
Timer = 30 seconds
Total Mana Regen = 615
Raid
Max Mana Regen = 123mana/tick
Timer = 5 minutes
Total Mana Regen = 6150

General Caster Regen Post Timer
Group
Mana Pool = 12,000
Rest Mana Regen = 420mana/tick
Mana Remaining to be Regened = 11,385
Time to Regen = 27.1 ticks = 162.6 seconds = 2.7 minutes
Raid
Mana Pool = 12,000
Rest Mana Regen = 420mana/tick
Mana Remaining to be Regened = 5850
Time to Regen = 13.9 ticks = 83.6 seconds = 1.4 minutes

Shaman Regen During Timer
Group
Max Mana Regen = 275mana/tick
Timer = 30 seconds
Total Mana Regen = 1375
Raid
Max Mana Regen = 275mana/tick
Timer = 5 minutes
Total Mana Regen = 13750 > 120000 (Actual Med Time: 44 ticks = 262 seconds = 4.4 minutes

Shaman Regen Post Timer
Group
Mana Pool = 12,000
Rest Mana Regen = 420mana/tick + 35mana/tick + 117mana/tick = 572mana/tick
Mana Remaining to be Regened = 10,625
Time to Regen = 19 ticks = 111.5 seconds = 1.9 minutes
Raid
Mana Pool = 12,000
Rest Mana Regen = 420mana/tick + 35mana/tick + 117mana/tick = 572mana/tick
Mana Remaining to be Regened = 0
Time to Regen = 0 ticks = 0 seconds = 0 minutes

Total General Caster Regen
Group
Timer + Time to Regen = 3.2 minutes
Raid
Timer + Time to Regen = 6.4 minutes

Total Shaman Regen
Group
Timer + Time to Regen = 2.4 minutes
Raid
Timer + Time to Regen = 4.4 minutes (NOTE: DONE BEFORE TIMER)

EDIT: That means that shaman went from regening a 12k mana pool 45% faster to only 25% faster in a group and only 31% faster in raid situations.

EDIT: That also means that shaman will get a 54% and 0% reduction in max downtime for grouping and raiding respectively while other casters will get 68% and 34%.

[Ungkor]

[Beafly]

I think this is of note:

General Casters on raids will see no benefit from these changes until they exceed a 5850 mana pool.

Shaman will see no benefit from this change until we reach a mana pool.

Casters can easily achieve 6k mana pools with single group gear, while shaman will need Tacvi+ raid gear to reach 13,750.

[Ungkor]

I do agree that these resting regen problems aren't really gonna manifest during raids that often. But the group power has certainly shifted with this change.

I'm running thru every raid that we do in my head right now.. I cannot see a way to get around the 5min limit in any useful way that would provide mana to classes that need it on a single raid. Between targets its completely moot.

[Fenier]

9800? Can be obtained with single groupable gear.

Its a very long process, but is certinaly doable with 200~ hp /mana items in everyslot with 50+ hp / mana augments (which are far more common since DoD and PoR).

[Beafly]

Exactly my point Fen. My rez bot cleric wearing crap that rots in wos and the bazaar has a 6k mana pool. I can barely take advantage of it myself. With 11k mana I will have to go completely out of mana only to see like 2 ticks of rest regen on a raid.

[Ungkor]

[Giac]

Exactly.

What it takes is putting up a thread and everyone of us to voice their concerns about it. We won't stop the downtime regen system from entering the game, but we need to explain that the Shaman is the only class whose mana regen is affected by how "busy" we get.

No other class's mana regen is altered. Whether they operate in trivial or challenging content, they will still have the same mana regen. Our mana regen is affected by what content we are playing in, what people we play with, group set up and many other factors.

We need cannibalize to be turned into a passive mana regen ability and that means that cannibalize needs to always give the same returns, regardless of how much time we dedicate to it. A short lasting canni-DoT would be one way to achieve that, another would be to make cannibalize return a certain % of mana per cast of any beneficial or detrimental spells we perform(this would make it so that the mana regen scales with our duties). Another option would be to have all our spells take HPs instead of mana for a small % of their total mana cost during combat(casting a 723 mana heal could cost 20% HPs(144 HPs) and 80% mana(579 mana) for instance).

Whatever it would be, the goal should be to make canni a semi-passive if not completely passive ability, that should not require you to give up any amount of effectiveness for it, in order to make cannibalize a combat ability again(as it was intended and confirmed by Rashere).

[Skalor]

[Beafly]

We agree that resting regeneration takes you from 0 to full in 3 minutes.

6 seconds = 1 tick
10 ticks = 1 minute
3 minutes = 30 ticks

Resting regeneration is percentage-based.

You'll have to regen 3.33333...% of your mana every tick to reach 100% of your mana within 30 ticks, or 3 minutes. I took the liberty of rounding to 3.5%. If the rounding is the biggest problem you find with the math I threw up above, I'm pretty happy.

As far as equal? Who are you kidding. It's only equal if everyone has the same mana pool. If I have 12kmana and the shaman standing next to me has 7k mana and we both go from 0 to full in 3 minutes who is gaining mana faster? Full is a relative term.

[Ungkor]

It'd be equal if the 7k mana shaman's spells cost 7/12th of the 12k mana shaman's spells

Maybe that is "phase 2" of the new regen system....

[Jaraman]

[Sharok]

You have a valid point, that the magnitude of the impact from this change is difficult to estimate at the moment. But even when this change ends up in only a 5 or 10 percent reduction of our mana regeneration advantage, why should we accept it without disagreement? Frankly after we already got an indirect nerf with slow mitigation and are constantly challenged with faster paced content, while still having a class model designed around long duration fights, we shouldn't accept any further arbitrary disadvantages or reducing of class-specific advantages.

I have no problem debating the size of needed tweaks, maybe we really get lucky and only minimal adjustments are needed. But nobody could seriously claim, that this change will have no impacts on group and raid dynamics altogether. For the record: i have no problems at all with this change helping some soloers. I always found it pretty lame, that current EQ blatantly puts some classes on such a big soloing disadvantage. All classes should have a reasonable shot on soloing for worthwhile XP, when they feel like it - or no class.

It's great SOE tries to come up with new ideas to make the game enjoyable even if some old-timers may disagree, most people do not want to wait 15 minutes for clerics to get going again. But atleast they should take the time and investigate, how all classes are effected by such changes.

To the discussion on the EQ-live forums, a lot of those posters (not all mind you) simply don't care as they aren't affected by this change. Would be intereresting to see their reactions, if some game functions related to their own class abilities would change .

[Tugela]

I think the average player is more concerned about what they personally can do, and not what someone else can do, whereas the folk who post on class boards often have the reverse attitude. So, most will see it for what it is - a boon, and a few will not.

In practice the people who will get the most benefit through tactical use will be primarily those in the business of burst dps. So, mostly wizards and mages, but also other classes who choose to nuke instead of doing their normal duties. It is unlikely that any melee will be able to use it in the same way since melee use a sustained dps model, and that doesnt really mesh well with tactical manipulation of the new system.

IMO it pretty unlikely that it will be of much use in fight on raids though - it's highly probable that the method used in the new system was set up specifically to prevent that.

[Veril]

How about this on raids

Random Caster - burns all mana. Runs to be OOR of mob. Camps and comes back in (removed from hate list). Rests. Get invite back into raid/group. Back to full mana and then rejoins the fight.

There are plenty of raids with 30min engagements that this will work on.

[Ughbash]

[Fenier]

[Ughbash]

[jdthomas]

[Skalor]

[Tugela]

[Jaraman]

[Skalor]