Rogue question

[Idracab]

Because I have a horrible, horrible case of ADD, I've started playing my rogue again ... mostly because he has the halfling and vah shir mask, and it was too much work to get them on the bard. Plus, you know, rogues can be fun.

Anyway, giving in to my ADD fully, I three box now - shaman, shadowknight, and alternating between cleric, wizard, and rogue on the third account (I told you I had ADD :p). The first two characters are easy to play (the wizzie is level 68 right now, which is a horrible, horrible time to be a wizard - I can't wait until I get access to some instants at level 71/72), but the rogue requires a bit more knowledge on my part. He just hit 65 (access to SoF gear) and had a VERY nice jump in DPS from it. However, and my question ... what discs do rogues use?

Right now I use the 'thief' one (where you have to be invis for 10 seconds before you can activate it, and it adds +damage to the first backstab), and then the one that refreshes every 5 minutes (think it adds accuracy or something), and the last that's on a 22 minute timer (that I just got at 65) that increases hit chance and crit hits, or some such. Just wondering if that's the standard discs that rogues use, or if I would be best served using something else. As an aside, I had my first exciting backstab last night - 3200 point crit. Not bad for a level 65 against a level 75 mob.

Oh, and because rogue boy has a grand total of 1 AA right now, I'll probably work toward 70 and grind out a few AA at that point. Any advice for the first, say 50 AA to get as a rogue? Work on melee crits? Some other goodie? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Unmei]

What discs you should be using depends somewhat on your gear and your endurance.

The 'opening stab' combat ability line (where you need to be hidden for 10 seconds), is kinda fun, but not really that effective. It consumes a lot of endurance for what it does (Namely, give you an opening backstab that won't miss and which does some extra damage with an extra chance to crit.)

In terms of 'real' disciplines, there are three main offensive discipline timers:

Timer #2 is the Duelist/Kinesthetics/Twisted Chance/Assassin timer. Kinesthetics is the short re-use (5 minute) disc on this timer and it gives you 100% dual wield and 100% double attack for 30 seconds. For a well geared, high level rogue with maxxed skills, that's a waste of endurance, because you're awfully close to 100% in those attributes anyway. Twisted Chance is a no-misses, improved chance to crit disc is generally regarded as "not as good as duelist" - which is a straight up damage booster for both min and max hits. Assassin is an improved duelist. On this timer, you probably only really want to use Duelist or Assassin if you have it. (Though Twisted chance is competitive, particularly if you have little to no accuracy gear).

Timer #3 is the Deadeye/Deadly Precision/Blinding Speed timer. This is an interesting one. Deadly precision is the short-re-use (5 minute) one here, giving a 100% hit rate on Backstabs only while active. It's... not bad, but the other discs on this timer are much nicer. You can use this one if you have endurance to burn (Though you probably won't if you're using Opening Stab a lot), but it's otherwise forgettable. Deadeye is similar, but gives a 100% hit rate on -all- skills, which is a much more significant boost. However, if your rogue has a lot of accuracy gear (I'm not really sure where the break point is. I suggest you do some of your own parsing), the Hundred-hands effect from Blinding Speed will result in more DPS just due to the sheer number of attacks it generates. That said, Deadeye produces way less aggro than Blinding Speed (Since aggro is based on swings, not hits), so if aggro is an issue, Deadeye becomes preferable.

Timer #5 is the Frenzied Stabbing timer. That's the only disc on this timer. It's also a 12 minute re-use, which is somewhat shorter re-use than the 20 minutes on Duelist/Deadeye, etc. This is a nice disc, and scales infinitely because it reduces the recycle time of backstab while it is active, so the better your backstabbing kung fu, the better this disc is.

There are a bunch of goofy other discs/Combat effects (Guide of Toxicity, Deadly Aim, Thief's Eyes, 'Flash' mezzes, defensive stuff, blah, blah, blah, and blah), but the three timers listed above are the ones that generate the damage and the ones that see the most use for most folks.

[Idracab]

Wow ... that is a FANTASTIC post. Thank you very much on that.

It's Twisted Chance that I was using last night. I appreciate that you mention what they do, because in my situation, I think the improved hit chance of Twisted will make more of a different to my wee rogue who has very little in the way of accuracy gear.

Anyway, thanks again for that bang up description of rogue discs.

[Unmei]

Glad to help out. My original main, way back, was a rogue (He's a meagre level 73 now), so I made quite a study of their stuff on The Safehouse (Which was really quite the premier EQ info site for a while anyway.) And, really, their core disc set hasn't change that much since then.

WRT to Twisted Chance - I really suggest you try it and duelist and see what works better for you. The damage boost on duelist is really quite large and may outweigh the hit rate/crits on Twisted Chance.

[HawklordXegony]

[Unmei]

[HawklordXegony]

[Kriyn Nutzforcatnip]

My main secondary character is a 79 gnome rogue. He is mostly Anguished gear with around 100 aa. I use Daggerfall, the 69 opening back stab attack, every time I start on a mob. The next upgrade to this isn't until lvl 80, or if you do the PoR collection missions for lvl 70 you can get an upgraded version. Endurance really isn't an issue with this disc unless your grp is pulling non stop for a while. The highest I have critted with this disc is for 10.3k with the dagger from Jelvan in Anguish.

I use Theif's Eyes occasionaly, but really only on named mobs, it has a very low endurance cost and lasts 1 minute. It is an accuracy buff that goes in the short duration window for your whole group, so it benefits everyone and not just yourself. The mez discs like Blinding Flash are nice for interrupting heals or gate for caster npcs. Assassin Discipline I save mainly for named due to the endurance cost and timer. Deadly Precision is also another one that I use, but mostly for named.

[Unmei]

The last time I checked on such things, Thief's eyes was regarded as an "unparsably small benefit" by the rogue community.

That said, I still use it anyway, 'cause it's pretty cheap.

My rogue, with limited AAs, cannot maintain Razorarc on steady pulls indefinitely, and definitely cannot maintain razorarc and thief's eyes indefinitely. I don't think there are enough regen boosting AAs in the game to change that - at least, not while also upgrading to Swiftblade and adding nearly 400 endurance to the cost.

In a group that doesn't give you time to OOC, opening stab is generally not sustainable. Though if your endurance pool is big enough, you might be able to sustain it long enough for someone to need to AFK.

[Kruzar]

Endurance can become an issue as your playing a rogue, but with gear updates and such it really becomes a non-issue as you go up. I highly recommend getting Razorarc, which is the opener that is obtained from the Skins quest. The main difference with it and the other previous openers it has a chance to effect additional backstabs in the opener. With AAs, we get the chance to do multiples. This will definetly show you some of the huge numbers that have been talked about.

Also remember that we do get the Second Wind and Third Wind discs, which can help in grouping situations. This will at least keep the lack of endurance at bay a little longer until a time out is called. Being raid geared, the only time I ever get close to running out of endurance is on long full burn fights, but even a group geared rogue can keep up with the group if you manage your discs appropriately.

My suggestion for most group situations is this... do openers every time if possible. (sometimes not possible if the group is pulling fast and hard) Use endurance building discs, when they are available. Always keep enough endurance to be able to run Nimble or Lithe. A rogue is not really supposed to tank, but with these discs if the tank goes down you at least have a chance of not losing the fight. (I love the Lithe disc)

From an AA standpoint... there are some that are a must...

SoS- Shroud of Stealth.... a must... a class defining ability
Escape- Another must

The main AAs to focus on for awhile are going to be the offensive AAs. These will give you so much bang for your buck as you move through. Focus first on those that help your ability to duo weild, and then look into those that give you upgrades to your attack. There are a ton of backstab improving AAs as well, and there are some that help with the ability to backstab when you do not have the back of the mob. I would not worry so much on the Assassinate line of AAs until you are further along, since these primarily only work for certain mob types and really only light blue mobs or below.

Also... check out the the safehouse... it is the rogue website and there are many frequent posters there and here. (like me )

Hope this helps... Good luck out.. .