Basic Raiding Guide (8/10/05)

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Basic Raiding Guide (8/10/05)

Postby Valya Wanderfoot » Sun Sep 24, 2006 1:33 pm

I've been on some small, family-guild style raids but have never had the opportunity so do the full-scale raids. At level 54, I figure the high end game is approaching. I also think that it is quite a bit about raiding and I'm now in a position where I have more time and would like to get into it. But other than knowing that 50 people get together and kill stuff...I know next to nothing about it. I've seen some raid leader guides...some specific zone guides...but the basics...like what's an MA's or SA's job...what does off-tanking really mean. Why is FD pulling so critical, etc. How does it typically break down...a couple groups hit the main mob while other groups take out the trash (so to speak), or does there come a point when all 50 are on the main mob at once?

Any suggestions on where I can get a good idea of the mechanics, a glossary of terms, explanation of acronyms, and things a person should definitely do and NOT do...would be extremely appreciated.
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varutia
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Joined: 01 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:14 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In today's environment you won't really start serious raiding until you are 65+.

Most important thing on raid is follow order exactly and don't do stupid things. When raid leaders issued an order, you jump to it. No AFK, unless you already know the rope and can do it when it is safe.

MA basically means the person you assist to kill, both on trash and big nasties. SA take over when MA go down or unable to perform his or her job for any reason, so on to TA etc.

Offtanking refer to multiple mob environment where there are additional mobs to the ones main tanks are engaging that needs to be tanked. Usually that comes in terms of unmezzable mobs or just too many to be control by mezzers present.

When you play in raid environment, there are trash mobs that can potentially kill you instantly. FD pulling is one of the most essential tool on raid to split inc mobs to a number the raid can handle safely. Main nasty with 4 guards will paste the raid, where 2 guards with main nasty will mean controlled chaos, main nasty by itself is a walk in the park, thus the importance of FD on raids. This differs from raid to raid, some situation, you can bull your way pass things where others FD and good pullers are invaluable.

How you approach each raid mob is different, depend on the situation, does he have guards, what kinda of AE he got, how hard he hit, traps, adds, respawn of mobs, etc etc. There are hundreds of things to know and learn. Some fights you kill the adds first and off tank the boss at same time, then finish it off. Some fights you kill the boss first and off tank the adds. Some you just kill the boss.

Raiding is like a combination of art and science. You can learn the science part, but the art part needs to be experienced to be understood.

I think that covers all your questions, go out and level, then raid Razz.
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fanghawk
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:08 pm Post subject: Raiding Questions Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thanks Varutia…that helps clarify some issues. I know the cardinal rule is “do what the raid leader tells you, when he tells you, and no more and no less than he tells you,” especially if you're new to raiding. Sounds like the MA, is group (within a raid), rather than raid specific, i.e., the raid won’t necessarily have an MA, but each group, of whatever size it’s broken down into will have one? I would personally love to hit some of the old raid zones, Kael or HoT come to mind…even if the drops there have been far outstripped by other, newer sources. I’m still kicking myself for leveling past Vox…but I never found anyone remotely interested in hitting her so I moved on. Crying or Very sad Are the older raid zones still good practice for the new content (assuming I’d ever find enough warm bodies interested) or has the flavor of the content changed so much, that other than being able to say, “Been there, done that,” there’s little point in hitting the older raid zones?
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Phinneas
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Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:17 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fang,

Every raid is different and requires different tactics. Frequently groups on raids often comprize of a tank, a healer/spot healer, and then other members. This is not always the case as often there are dps groups made etc... but it is not infrequent to maintain more familiar grouping types in raid groups. If you are new to a raid and are not familiar with raiding, don't get creative or do something you were not instructed to do...usually this just causes deaths.

The Main Tank (MT)
For the most part there is almost always one Raid Main Tank (MT) Healers will be assigned to watch this person's HP and his/her job is to maintain aggro of the mob.

Secondary and Tertiary Tanks (ST, TT)
It is the role of these tanks to get aggro of the mob and hold it if the Main Tank dies. Often times on hard mobs there will be a tanking order ... ie Maximus is the MT for tanking the uuber mob. The Secondary Tank (ST) would be his backup tank if he dies. Occasionally there may even be a Tertiary Tank or Third Tank (TT) who would step in if the MT and ST die. Usually if you have progressed through that many tanks things aren't going as planned so other tanks may step up and try to handle the mob as the raid burns it down. Additionally, sometimes ST and TT are used when more than one mob needs to be tanked at once.

Off-Tanks
Some raids require you to have off-tanks to either occupy a mob until the main mob dies or to tank adds as the raid kills the adds before going back to the main mob (the MA always stays on the main mob in this case as do his healers). Names for this off-tanking role can vary Tank-Mezzers (TMers), Off-Tank (OT), Trash Tanks or Add Tanks ... but usually reffered to by one of the first two).

The Main Assist (MA)
The Main Assist (MA) can often times also be the MT, but not always. Everyone is to assist the MA when he/she calls assist on the mob and not a second before hand! Naturally an assist button /assist maname is good to have.

Secondary and Tertiary Assists (SA, TA)
Usually you only assist one person but sometimes there may be an order to which the raid needs to kill multiple mobs, so it would be something along the lines of ... Kill TankA's mob first then TankB's then TankC's. This is a circumstantial thing often used on Emoush raids (and other raids as well).

Raid Communication
Most raids use more than the /raidsay channel. Know and understand what different channels are used for, where you can and can't talk and what channels you are to join. Some raids us a general chat channel (general chat and requests for buffs), a Shout channel (Raid Leader and other important people/info), a healing channel (for healers to get their cheal rotations in order, sometimes other channels.

AFK's
Be sure to let someone know (for us we have them tell their group leader, announce in the general chat channel and then be sure they put up their AFK Tag (and possibly autofollow if safe). Some raids you need to be sure to get permission before going afk being as the raid may be moving through some dangerous area and will have a chance after for going afk.

Don't Send Tells To The Raid Leader
Never send a tell directly to the raid leader unless you have been delegated some special important task by them and you have questions about it or it is some kind of "emergency." Ask your group members first about your question, likely they will know what the answer is. If they don't know ask someone you know has done the raid before, someone of your class higher in level/experience, or possibly an officer who is not leading the raid and if you dont get an answer then try asking in the general channel. Raid leaders are very busy so reducing any extra distractions they may get is very important.

Don't Break Mezes
As in groups, don't break chanter mezzes unless it is your job to do so.

Keep the Healers and Chanters Alive (other casters are ok to save as well Razz)
If a mezzed mob breaks and runs for a non-tank, you should try to use NON-Damage stuns on it and TAUNT to gain aggro (BE SURE YOUR ATTACK IS OFF) until they can remez the mob. Frequently after they mez it, I will make sure to get a successful Taunt off and then 2 more stuns and then go back to what ever is most important for me to do. Naturally quick heals can be crucial to saving that finger-wiggler from dieing ... so heal them and spare the clerics from having to try.

Have Fun
Raids can be a blast even if you wipe! So have fun trying and keep a fun and light attitude! Enjoy hanging with your friends and the glory of victory in battle!

Phinneas
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"I will nerf this" - Absor

Last edited by Phinneas on Mon Aug 29, 2005 9:12 am; edited 3 times in total
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saintsaens
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Phin,

Overall, good guide, but have to remember there are different styles of raiding...

There are also some raids where the MA is a different person from the MT. For instance, some guilds/open raids use paladins/SKs to tank trash mobs, thereby leaving the warriors free to grab aggro on incoming named mobs (the Bert script is a great place this can be used, for example). The important thing for someone new to raiding to remember is that they should assist whoever the MA is, NOT always the MT.

If you're doing the open raid style of raiding, generally the raid leaders tend to want all chit chat in a player made chat channel (have to ask whoever is running the raid for the channel, there can be many different open raid channels on a single server). Generally raids will have a healer channel, a tank channel, a chanter channel, a shaman channel, and a kite channel (if needed for encounter). If you're needed in a particular channel, generally the raid leader will tell you to join it. A guild raid is generally more coordinated, and uses guild chat instead of a chat channel for chit chat, most of the time. However, open raids are generally a good way to get flagged for new zones, if you have a good open raid leader.

For a paladin on a raid, you can do several different jobs. Main tanking (if your gear is good enough), offtanking (up to a point, again dependant on gear), healing (either assisting off the named mob and splash healing or healing your group, just be careful not to heal TOO much, or you draw aggro upon yourself), battle rezzing, buffing, or curing AEs with RGC or Crusader's Touch/Purity (yes, these spells have many uses in raids).

One thing Phin forgot to mention that I think is pretty important is always make sure you let someone know you're going afk if you need to, and for how long. This way you're not yelled at for not paying attention to directions if someone calls for the raid to move somewhere or you to do something. Smile
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bobbit
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:50 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Guys, just to say a big thanks for your full and detailed replies. As someone who has been on just 2 raids in 2 years I also was not sure about a lot of the issues raised by Fang.

I have always stayed away from raids because I myself prefer to solo, but thats just my personal preference (its also because often I drink beer while playing and a drunk tank in groups or raid don't go down well Smile )

However, I'm now getting tempted to join some open raids to get further into DON progression so your advice will be very useful.

Thanks, you guys rock! Cool
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Thyrx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
if you are looking for raid training areas yes kael is a good place to train general stuff, halls of testing is also a good place to train. take a well balanced raid and practice timeing attacks, pulling, add mezzing, learning each toons role in a raid past just follow orders and hit/nuke mob x. chanters mana drain bard sing resist, healers and nukers hide behind walls or in corners and wait for tank to call after mobs ae fired. do belly casting and escaping ae's. paladins doing group heals and off tanking. ahh the memories of hot i loved that place. raiding is not that hard and can have some great results in gear, and if you go with a group of peeps you know well it can be alot of fun. in my experience pu raids are painful as there are too many heroes trying to save the raid and two many chiefs and not enough indians, they become somewhat disorganized and may turn you off to raiding.

sort of a rambling post but follow the general guidelines stated in previous posts and you will have a fun succesful experience raiding. just don't start to big. work your way up. and getting raids to go do some of the old world targets is not all that impossible. i will frequently go tank a raid in chardok, or kael to help other people out, make friends, relive some good old experiences, or just have some funning killing everything.
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fanghawk
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:16 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thyrx wrote:
do belly casting and escaping ae's.


Okay...I've heard the term "belly casting" before and could never quite figure out what that meant? And (and please REALLY excuse my ignorance Embarassed ) what do you mean by escaping AEs. Do you mean, generally just trying to avoid the mobs AE's, or are there some AE's for the good guys that help escape unpleasant situations (like Succor and stuff...or am I missing something)?

As Bobbit said...the replies have been excellent and I think I'd be comfortable enough that I won't make an A** of myself when I start raiding. Thanks all.
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Thyrx
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
on certain mobs (i have only known dragons to be like this) in order to get a spell to land on them you must be in melee range or standing underneath their belly.

as far as escaping ae's. many mobs cast ae spells some of them can be avoided by standing behind a pillar like lord inquisitor seru, or hiding behind a corner or wall like when killing dozekar the cursed. the way to avoid them is to have the main tank tell the casters right after the ae goes off, they sneak out from behind the wall and cast their spell/heal and hide behind the wall/corner again. thus avoiding an ae spell.
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Ridden
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:00 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The best advice I could give is ask the other paladins if theres a paladin or knight channel! Join them and learn, ask them questions!
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Phinneas
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Joined: 21 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
saintsaens wrote:
there are different styles of raiding...

There are also some raids where the MA is a different person from the MT.

/nods in agreement

Ya sorry was trying to do quick overview while at work lol *shh* But this is definately something that is not a hard and fast rule. Usually the raid leader will go over such things before enguaging the mob.

Defianately agree on the AFK comment, be sure to let someone know (for us we have them tell their group leader, announce in the general chat channel and then be sure they put up their AFK message (and possibly autofollow if safe).

Biggest thing is to try to get to know the group of people you are raiding with and their style Smile

Have fun,

Phinneas
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Arny
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Having played eq for 6 years plus as a none raider and only fairly recently joined a raiding guild, Ridden's advice is good. I would also suggest picking out one of your best guilds pallies and watch and learn and ask how they handle different encounters, it's not rocket science, but it can take some getting used to as our role on raids can be quite different from our role in single groups.

The bigest problem I had was setting up my UI to my liking. There is so much information flying past you on a big raid, some of it important, some of it not so important and some of it totaly useless, and you need your chat windows set up so you don't miss the stuff you need to know.

I ended up with 2 extra chat windows (although I am still fiddling with them now), and have them filtered so that I don't miss much.
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saintsaens
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
hmm... No posts for a week...

I was going to wait till everyone had their say on this thread, then maybe move it to Tomes of Knowledge or stickify it or something. It's some good information for those new to raiding and didn't want to have it buried.

Anyone else have anything to add, or if no responses in a couple days, I'll do the moves.
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