A new Disc idea

[knytul]

One of our fellow pallies came up with this idea and after bouncing it back and forth a few days with him, this is what he has come up with so far. So we are bringing it over here to get input from everybody else and see what a few more pallies can add onto it. Please dont derail this thread and stay on subject:

OK, just a compilation here,
New dis (Name in the works, suggested so far are Return the Favor - or - Retribution of Light, please feel free to suggest more), lasting 2 ticks and at the end a single or multiple target hate proc. The amount of damage taken during the dis is the factor to how high the hate proc can be, capped out per rank. To be affected by this proc a mob must of hit us first.

The base Dis would be something like 1500 damage/hate and 2 targets max, but can be improved by 2 ranks of aa (Name also in the works) first aa would increase it to 2750 and 3 targets and the second would be up to 4000 and 4 targets. Each target if there are more than 1 to be effected equally (4k to 2k hate each)

Again this is just a work in progress.

[Peaky]

I'm trying to understand this . . .

I'm tanking 1+ mobs, so I am holding aggro; and this disc gives me more aggro on those targets without any other side effect/bonus. Is that an accurate way to describe this suggestion?

[knytul]

The way ive come to understand this, is you are tanking a mob. You hit your disc. The incoming damage is calculated up for 12 seconds (2 tics) and then distributed back out in the form of Single or Multiple mob agro. A few factors to this would be 1) mob limit cap (probably 4), and radius.

So an example per say: You take damage w/ this running for 12 seconds From mob A. Lets say you take in enough to cover 4k agro. After 12 seconds, this fires and agroes up to 4 mobs in the radius (including mob A here). SO 3 more come in. That 4k agro is split 4 ways (1k per mob). If it was just 1 add, itd be 2 mobs so 2k agro per. This is the end result.

Initial disc: 2 targets up to 1500 agro split
To boost it:
Rank 1: 3 Targets @ 2750 agro split
Rank 2: 4 Targets @ 4k agro split

The catch to this is its usable as a single target agro too. If only 1 mob in range (the one ur tanking), after 12 seconds you fire off that max agro. Basically this is a Defensive Agro proc. `Procs just like Tunare line does, but instead of heal, you get a 12 sec short duration buff, then afterwards Agro is fired off. Usable as Single target or AE agro.

[Peaky]

Doesn't sound like anything I'd use; sort of like another Withstand (which I use sooooo rarely because it's more annoying than it is worth). I can't think of any time I have aggro issues unless someone either takes it intentionally or gets it via low-hp aggro. I don't think that this suggestion is bad, I'm just saying it's not for me; something similar but firing up to 4 taunts instead of raw aggro would be nice (leave it based on our taunt skill, not a guaranteed taunt like warrior aa ae taunt).

[Opfor]

You're welcome Kny, but was pure DMG recourse not aggro. Nice idea though I may steal it back for SKs.

[Normy]

I would use this. Frequently. Against a reasonable hitting mob, this would just be extra agro to couple on top, which would mean less casting, more mana and less downtime. And being a disc/proc, no cast time, no fizzles, no interruptions. Damn helpful when self-healing or whenever you need to split your attention from just tanking a single mob and nothing else.

[boukk]

This is just pure fluff really, considering spell/disc slot are probably going to be limited for UF, i would then be against it.

[knytul]

me personally, id use it ALOT in grouping situations, esp when im xp'n and tryin to keep more than 10 mobs on me at any given point. More ae agro i can try to distribute the better. On raids, a few events that come to mind is clearing Pallorax trash, Venomlord the trash near door, Tower: event 1 it cant hurt, Tower 2 especially, 4 for trash sure, and 5 it can help.

This disc would have alot of benefits, and while some dont like withstand, ive come to use withstand ALOT. If you wanna see how effective Withstand is, go solo w/ merc Beguiler Chandra (sp?), in Precipe of War instance. Kill her without using Withstand, then kill her using it.

[karkariace]

This is useless, dev specified we would only get 2/3 spell and 1 disc at most, dont need to waste it on semi useless stuff, that s exactly the kind of comportment that should be avoided, focus on important matter, forget the fluff and comfort.

[Arvantos]

Hmm, sounds like a good idea for getting aggro on multiple mobs but it sounds like it would have the same end result as an AE Taunt. Other posts have led me to believe that the pally role is to primarily deal with single adds and as such we will probably not get any form of an AE Taunt.

[knytul]

[Normy]

[Hulkling]

play nice kiddies.

[Sylvia Sunhair]

As far as i can see what your asking for is a 4 target AE hate with a max cap at 4k hate then add the extra condition that somehow its only the dmg we take from the mob.
I probably take an awerage of like 1k dps from t5 mobs so the cap will be reached in 4 seconds.
Then we take the max agro and split it (if 4 mobs thats max agro of 1k to each mob), 1k agro is close to nothing, and finally its a disc so it means we cant use other discs while its running.
I see no use for this at all but if it dosnt take a suposedly limited spell / disc slot whatever.

[Arvantos]

[knytul]

im not picking any battle atm. im taking someone else's idea and breaking down the concepts of it and laying them out. seeing it for a multitude of possibilities. Turning single target something into aoe something else. already i listed it as 3 different possibilities: 1) AoE stun, 2) AoE nuke, or 3) just plain aoe hate

Which is originally why i brought the thread over. What all possibilities can we make out of this? the other pally saw this as aoe hate. Also, what specifics could we make out of them possibilities to make the ideas worthwile and presentable? Like 4k split between 4 targets being 1k per, or 2 / 2, or 4k for 1 target.

Already i can see a few different spell/disc ideas on this beginning concept alone. Going straight at it and saying "i see no use for it", tells me a few things. 1) you didnt even read anything and just posting to build your post count. and 2) You arent thinking outside the box and just picking on 1 specific detail. Nobody wants any conclusions atm of if you see a use for it or not. The guy wants Input (and no this isnt my idea originally, im just backing him up and helpin him out) on how to turn his idea into something we can use without losing the original idea. So, Help your buddy out like i am.

Having said all that, and ive said this a few times this week alone, lemme tell ya again. We have new developers in the drivers seats. And things are looking to change. Already they are looking at changes to Slay Undead (yes they actually WANT to do something this time...) and the current dev's (Elidroth) goal is to boost us on live and undead. Once this is done im sure all our utilities will be evaluated differently too. NOW is the time that if you have any ideas, or new concepts, to get them posted. Go through them with other paladins, sort out the concepts. Create up New Fresh stuff so when they say "ok pallies, watcha got?"...You have an arsenal instead of a corncob and a 10" hole....Regardless of whether you want to believe me or not, there will be some changes coming in the next year.

Now im not saying that you have to want everything ive said about this idea, im not because some people might want this concept in some form of disc, some not. But what i am saying is if you dont, dont post. If you do, help your buddy out and help him fill in the blanks. If this idea were to be in a beta and be parsed, what #'s would we have to look for to keep it good, but not Overpowered? What aa's could go with it? How much would them aa's cost? Etc....