Desired Items for the Upcoming expansion

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

So wait, I'm just expected to know and understand everyone elses play style and just willingly agree to something else that is suggested rather than dare ask that others see if from my point of view?

That is the same idea of "I don't see it that way, so it must be a bad idea" crap from the other end of the spectrum. I'm trying to understand the issue, and I'm trying to suggest a route that might or might not work, but no one so far has commented on the concept. If I had the attitude of "no, that doesn't work for the way I play" then I would just be in the boat of /veto all possible change and suck it up or quit. I'm not like that at all.

I don't claim to be the expert on all things paladin. But I have been playing a good amount of time, and my only main has been my paladin, so I don't think that I'm completely ignorant either.

I was not aware that the discussion for changing SCS has already been brought up. I would have figured that we would have solely been asking for such a change, so I stand corrected. That does make it much more plausible then. But it still would not allow us to chain cast our agro spells for DPS and not pull agro, it would just take a few more casts. And I just cannot agree with removing agro from the crush line, the only other way we have to maintain agro right now besides stuns.

[Ughbash]

[Hulkling]

I understand all of that. Crush of Compuntion is only 71 DPS (1167 DD with 24 sec recast). If we want the added 71 DPS from cycling crush, then we risk the chance of ganking agro. I see nothing wrong with that. Say we get a new 170(?) DPS nuke, cycling in CoC for an additional 71 DPS is NOT a threat to any other class because our DPS is so abysmal to begin with.

The goal is to increase our overall DPS. Linking new DPS abilities with what we already have would severly limit said new DPS abilities, and is borderline defeating the purpose.

[Wyvernwill]

Wasn't meaning to come off like I was jumping on ya, more of explaining that it's something I would like to see as well. Even with this item I've expressed my concerns (like hoping for certain that SCS wouldn't decrease the hate adjust on our agro spells, which would make it an automatic no buy for me as well). Assuming that it didn't... I'd gladly purchase the ranks without even thinking twice about it.

Reason being, there are times where I may pull a mob off a caster or others, while another tank steps up. My reactions to self heal have more than once lead to my death. It becomes a potential negative for me in situations like that or when I need a heal and something gets overly attracted to the fact I just healed myself. When we were able to top parses on undead (Demi - TSS era), it was really easy for me to yank agro off of our MTs when I was going all out. The past that happened with me, is another reason why I see there MAY be a potentially serious NEED for the ability, especially if we end up with Flurry + DDs and undead content.

Overall, I doubt people are having much issue with agro, with the exception being those maximizing dps via Crushes. My normal situations, it's fairly difficult for me to tear agro off of another tank (accidentally) unless I'm intentionally trying to keep my agro high. I'm not sure where I sit with a targeted form of agro reduction... personally, I would prefer something more passive with an on/off switch, but that's me. Targeted might not be bad if it was instant cast though, but I don't think that would fly unless it had a slightly restrictive reuse.

[Ughbash]

[Wyvernwill]

[karkariace]

So much thing to do and work on, yet people lose their time arguing about some 100% fluff stupid idea, i never knew i would ever hear a paladin asking for SCS, like ever, but atleast it gave us some good laugh in our knightraid chan i guess.

[knytul]

alot more than 1 have asked for it, as long as it has its limitations to only affecting healing and nuking power...

[Zanador]

I'd like to make a new board account, could someone ban this one so I don't accidentally post with this name?

[shiftie]

lol dot dot dot

[Zanador]

And if you don't agree with Knytul and Hulking you might as well not say anything because to make it appear like the class is unified and wants the ludicrous bullshit they keep spewing they just gonna make an elitist forum on here again with special access to only the ones they want to have it that agree with em like they did for sod after the paladin community overwhelmingly had voted against having a access restricted paladin forum

edit: whoops, sorry same name. I'll try not to do it again

[shiftie]

I repeat

LOL

[knytul]

Zanador...so pissy....so sad...

What i do with my friends is none of your business. What we talk about is none of your business. Nothing i do is none of your business. And Flaming people on a forum would get your post deleted on ANY Forum....Its like you lose 10 iq points everytime u post now. Seriouosly Grow up.

[Zanador]

"..." back atcha ~*huggles*~

[Wyvernwill]

[Carmaris]

The double negative is a time honored method of showing emphasis in all languages. It only became a no-no in English when some putz decided to apply mathematic rules to language...

For real emphasis that circumvents the neo-grammar police, use the triple negative.

[knytul]

i didnt go to college to be an english professor...GOD i hate grammar police. People like that make me wanna slap someones mama. Just like EQ Spell Checkers. You spell a word wrong and they get all pissy.

[Wyvernwill]

[Abazzagorath]

Wow. Guess I shouldn't let a few days go by without reading the forums.

Overaggroing when we don't want aggro IS a problem. Unless you're one of the pathetic paladins doing 1200 "burn" dps we have extremely high aggro without using stuns/challenge or healing.

I don't think SCS is a good idea though. I think silent casting AA is a great idea, however.

The reason crushes have aggro on them is simple. We asked for a dps tool. They gave us crushes. People pointed out that the lack of spell gems meant that you generally couldn't use them in most group content when you are tanking because you needed stun aggro, even if the mob was unstunnable. So they added the aggro.

So the obvious solution is crushes without aggro override AND with a recourse nuke effect to make up whatever level of dps is appropriate so that we don't gank aggro. You can't really take off the crushes without bringing back the same issue. However, if we do get the rumored 2 new spell gems, and they just unlinked crushes from stuns entirely, that would work too, but at the cost of less spell gem freedom.

As to AE hate, I personally see no reason any such tool needs to have a hit limit. Its the recast that will limit its usefulness and thats where the balance will come in. Focus balancing discussions on the recast and we'll come to something much more balanced and meaningul in the first place.

I also don't get where Hulkling thinks an undead bane nuke would "never happen". I think he needs to actually think about what was asked for: A nuke that works on any mob and procs an undead bane if the target happens to be undead.

How exactly is that a problem if the entire point is to do the same dps with one spell as we were doing with 2 in the first place? It doesn't ask for some huge amount of undead dps portion, just what we are doing already or what is balanced.

Personally, I'd like an undead nuke that doesn't have the debuff portion AND is unlinked with our other undead debuff line.

[Thebobo]

[shiftie]

[knytul]

2 things:

1) Crushes: Crushes were added in for 1 reason, 1 reason only. When you get up to Yellow con +, Stuns are nearly worthless. The only 2 things they did, was Agro generation, and slight chance to trigger healing light. THATS it. Crushes were added in so we could do some damage to these yellow con + mobs while still generating the same agro. They were never meant for pure dps tools, they were just added as a tradeoff for a worthless component on higher cons (the stun portion to damage portion). They are some dps, but they are not pure dps tools.

2) "I also don't get where Hulkling thinks an undead bane nuke would "never happen". I think he needs to actually think about what was asked for: A nuke that works on any mob and procs an undead bane if the target happens to be undead."

Why would you think that when it was Hulklings idea to begin with? Also, what makes you think he isnt asking for it now as we speak?

[karkariace]

[karkariace]

[karkariace]

[shiftie]

[knytul]

exactly. The idea hes against is the extra component to FURY...not Undead Bane nukes. The undead bane nukes do absolutely no change to our Undead DPS. They just give us more live dps..AGAIN this goes to what i JUST said and ill quote:

"(And i know ive said this at least 1000x), DO THE HOMEWORK, and read ALL the fine print....."

[Thebobo]

wish list

Our 90% resurrection has become less popular on raids and really cant blame folks who have limited grind time the difference adds up fast. I would suggest Paladins get a Call spell or AA, one where the player can get a real rezz afterwards.

--- Other options would be to add a percentage (30%?) of mana and endurance instantly reclaimed to our 90% rezz.

MGB timer reduction AA


wacky wish list

Real AE agro ~

Self perm invis AA (haha doubt this will ever happen)

[Sylvia Sunhair]

Not sure if this have been mentioned but how about a new Heal over time line who stack with ouer normal HoT ?
Its a matter of stackability and the entire arsenal of a paladin simply fall in efficiency if you put us in group with a cleric or shaman.
With a cleric all ouer buffs except brells become worthless, and with any class who get HoT ouer Heal over time become worthless, at the same time any of ouer direct heals beside burst is really old copy paste who is worthless, they are to slow and heal for to little.
a good way to keep this up to date would be to
Make a new HoT line who stack with old (same type as LH)
A Mark who stack with the cleric line
Id want to add soem new buff who actually stack with something or add soemthign else to brells becouse 800 hp seems to be gettign a bit on the low side.

[shiftie]

[boukk]

[knytul]

*Grabs his own bag of popcorn for this one*

[shiftie]

[Sylvia Sunhair]

While possible to add extra stuff to WoT i would prefere a spell like ouer normal hot and a heal value of that order but who stack with hot, it would be quite a good idea to make it into a group version also but something unique paladin and with a 6+ tick duration.
all this blessing aa etc etc etc is all a bunch of minor boost who while nice just dosnt mean much, and the problem is most of ouer normal spells simply just isnt compatible with a cleric it just get overwriten

[Hulkling]

[knytul]

i wasnt gonna quote and drag all that conversation into here man. You already know the dev's feelings on bane to Fury line, thus standing by their decisions...Any future arguing on it atm is pointless.

[angelito]

Why can't they just give us AE PB Stun + hate with no damage component. The clerics have it in their stun line minus hate, would not be hard to give it to paladins. It basically solves any coding issue that will be needed. Coding cone aggro or mob limit ae aggro is too hard for the coders to do. Just rehash an old spell for a class that will actually use it.

More DPS spells would be nice, but we are hybrids and really should have melee as our DPS, spell dps is nice but I'm not a bleeping wizard and I don't feel like being an SK where i have to weave my spells between swings to max my dps. I do like the bane idea of a nuke to live with undead bonus dmg with bane, less spell gem swaping is always good.

Dual wield would be grand but that is a fat chance wish but would effectivly increase our dps with minimal coding.

96% rez also would be a great addition, since no one takes a 90% rez no matter how many times you cast it.

Just random thoughts...

[Wyvernwill]

[shiftie]