New spell/aa idea

[shiftie]

After some discussion with Riou (and earlier with Gilthanos) we came to an idea for a spell.

Sk get -
Voice of thule
1: Increase Aggro Modifier by 12%

The proposal is a (-)12% aggro modifier spell with the availability to cast on others.

The predominant reason for this spell is to allow for dps upgrades with the upcoming expansion via spell DD

Currently our crushes pull in massive amounts of aggro on a burn - this would allow us to burn these spells more effectively as well as giving us another raid utility item, much like the new buffs we were discussing as possible ideas the other day in pally chat.

anyhow open for ideas/comments
shiftie

[riou]

I like it and it would be great utility buff / even on our selves just so we can nuke more for dps gains for raids

[frocus]

Don't chanter's already get an Aggro reduction version of SK voice line spell's or did that line die off after pop for them? I wouldn't mind seeing pallies get the aggro reducer one tho since SK's can cast there aggro increaser on others.(fun to use to kill the over nuking wizzy)

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

[riou]

Rangers is a defensive proc, which only works if you're actually getting hit, it's also only a -100 hate proc, so really weak in current content

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5300

[Ughbash]

[knytul]

hold up Grasshopper. Few factors to consider first. Like the way it sounds is this would work on all spells too. Casting this on a wizard would send them practically into Godmode...Able to chaincast at will w/ 12% agro deduction on each spell.....Or melee on a zerker they wouldnt have to do their agro reduction abilities and could just hellraise at will....

[riou]

[knytul]

i can see this possibly as self only, but not targetable. Wizards sure use silent casting first...but afterwards theyd be asking for it...Rogues would ask for it to stack with their new found love of Poisons, anybody other than the warrior who ends up on HoTT a raid leader would ask us to cast this on them to remove them from HoTT. Would add more utility to us, but i dont see this as adding more dps opportunities to us.

[karkariace]

Useless spell, we need to focus on area we lack on, not on stupid fluff spell.

You cant steal aggro from just using crush(if you are , your war just plan suck, beside for 80dps, who the hell care) , i dont want to be caster s bitches castin aggro reducing every 10min either.

We dont need any aggro reducing ability.

Big NO from me, devs ressources are VERY LIMITED, last thing we need is to come up with useless crap like this that will take time needed of important stuff (dps, healin upgrade, etc)

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

[knytul]

im not saying what my want for this "new spell" would be...im just saying what the developers would see in it. This ability has 2 directions: overpowered or useless. I dont see any middle ground on it at this time.

[Ughbash]

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

I would like this if it were group target, and could be MGB'ed. Then whoever doesn't want it would be able to click it off and of course don't allow it to stack with the SK agro boost line.

Then in a normal group, I would cast it and click it off myself. In a raid I would MGB it and remind the tanks to click it off. At times I'm in a DPS group in raids as a backup healer, and I would keep this going at all times then. Even when not in those groups, I would keep it up on the DPS groups of my raids.

But I would want it to be an AA. And it would give us an extra utility reason, which would be cool, but it wouldn't fix any of the actual issues facing us right now, which most see as our lack of DPS and our stagnated group heals.

But I wouldn't argue against having an extra utility. For those talking about dev resources, the code already exists for the SK line, just a new name and a swap of the sign (positive agro to negative agro).

In a single target version, I wouldn't find a huge use for this. Maybe on a few rangers which seem to have massive agro now for some reason, but thats a small benefit overall.

[knytul]

Ench: Level 79: Aura of Endless Glamour. Surprisingly enough, it did NOT get upgraded in SoD....

This aura also only affects those in group only. Thus limit to 6 people.

This buff yall are suggesting being targetable...We could use on anybody thus making it overpowered. Itd be same situation if we could do a targetable Silent piety...
A group only version of this would seem about right, a self only would seem a lil weak but potentially usable if given more dps spell lines...targetable tho...seems a lil much.

[Normy]

I'm not entirely sure why that would be considered overpowered. I don't see how the agro increaser that SK's have being overpowered, yet they can use it on anyone and never mem a spell or waste any mana.

I'm not disagreeing totally, I just don't understand the logic is all. A single utility ability like that would not have need for upgrades, would stack with auras making it desireable especially for casters, and could considerably help in the group game.

I mean, one of my biggest complaints isn't really that my DPS is just so low (and it is), its that when I'm grouping my DPS has to completely bottom out because I'm usually chain casting to keep agro. An ability like this might help and might even give an SK and a paladin a reason to be in the same group.

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

A little off topic here, but it makes baby jesus cry if thats the reason the enchanter is in a caster heavy group. I stick them with all mages and wizzies, and it has nothing to do with mana regen. Its about keeping them off agro and increasing their DPS, in that order.

[Wyvernwill]

[Gilthanos]

This idea of agro reducing buff is definately one of those ideas you think about and say sure that would be an awesome tool. It sounds like a very cool symmetry with SKs vot line. Frankly that is where the warm fuzzies stop. Not only is this completely against our class role, its just going to get us laughed off the game. You all realize you are asking for AE agro and in the same breath saying give us agro reduction too? Not to mention the few quacks that think we need a boost to tanking. We already have too many strong voices claiming we ask for the sky. We need to consider how these things effect our class in relation to every other class. The tools we ask for are not to REPLACE sks or warriors, but to balance with them and fit into a group or a raid bringing different yet equally needed/wanted game play. It makes no sense to get a NEW spell line to alter the spells we already have. Crush line atm is too much agro to use as a dps boost UNLESS you are tanking. This means raid paladins can not really use it, and group paladins that might group with sks or warriors cant use it either. If that was the intention of SoE then grats it works. If it was a legitimate attempt at giving us a universal dps boost it failed. The much better course of action to reducing agro with crush is to unlink them from stuns and drastically reduce their agro levels.

The changes/additions I would like to see. They are mostly contingent upon each other, and thus would need to be rethought if any of them are denied.

1- Give Paladins Explosion of Hatred or equivalent ability
2- Give Paladins SCS (Spell Casting Subtlety) Agro spells are not effected by this.
3- Give Paladin Crush spells a REDUCTION/removal in/of hate generated.
4- Unlink Crush spells from stun lines
5- Alter AND unlink undead nukes to land on live WITH the undead bane code.
6- Change Flame of Light to .5 sec cast time (Lower level paladins should have this nuke on the hybrid timer as well)
7- Update Holy Forge to be a viable LONG reuse time disc with viable bonuses to dps on a normal disc duration timer.
8- Add a 15min reuse (short) burn disc on a different timer to HF. (Either/or/both 7 & 8 would be nice)
9- Add undead bane to Fury line
10- Possibly add a soul abrasion type AA
11- Possibly add an AA that reduces cure cast times much like quick damage/quick buff
12- Add the radiant cure recast reduction aa
13- Upgrade targetable corruption cure
14- Flurry AA (both knights)

Might need to add other things to the list later. These are the top things I could think of today.

Gilthanos <Triality>

[Normy]

[knytul]

yesterday, it was suggested that possibly either adding to our current Undead nuke line, OR revamp them...into an Undead BANE nuke line. Ie: Take a 3k undead nuke and turn it into say 2500 live with 500 Undead Bane. That one so far ive been most in favor of.

[riou]

If we get another nuke around eulogy quality as dps fix, you can not use any more nukes on Live without out aggroing warrior going full burn aggro

the only way to fix this is:
so you either need a Jolt ability ("jolting bash" like rangers get jolting kick dmg disc?)
or you need an ability like this that can give utility,
or you have to ask prathun to put a -X aggro line extra on the nukes
Silent casting aa?

Let's be honest here, our dps upgrade will probably come in the form of nukeing, since nothing else "fits", currently, both crushes and a nuke similar to eulogy (2400 dmg) is just a slight hair(like 10 hate per second) under a keen edge/ raxtki + both EB augged warrior spamming every hate ability, if you use a Proc aug or hate aug or something instead of a 7 dmg aug in your 2her your hate will surpass the warriors.

Not fitting in isn't really correct either, being a "Protector"/"Defender" means we make it so other people dont get hurt, -aggro buff = less chances of the person getting hurt, dont see how it wouldn't fit .

removing hate from crushes would only lower total hate while nuking(if we include a eulogy quality nuke) by 33%, we wouldn't be rideing hate from that same raxtki/keen edge EB augged warrior spamming everything, but we would out aggro weaker geared warriors(how many of your warriors are raxtki/keen edge dual wielding both with eb augs)

plus the good part of crushes being they are 0.5 second cast hate nukes, dont think many would like that removed

There's no point in DPS gains if we cant use them.

[Beregorn]

While we talked about the AA in the new expansion - having somebody saying shield block is an clicky AA - we had the following idea:

Since we get an AA for 2h bash - why not having an AA that would give us shield block even while wearing a 2h?

[frocus]

Not gonna happen. We get shield block to help us when we are in tank mode granting a 2h version for us I assume you mean like Monk staff block means regardless of going for dps or tankability we get that extra 6% avoidance. 2 handers are our dps option. Sword and Board is our tanking option.

[Ughbash]

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

I would rather get additional ranks of shield block and leave it as is, further increasing the benefit of my shield. Even if this were to happen, I wouldn't get much use out of it as when I'm tanking anything worthwhile I generally use my shield for the AC anyway. And tanking with a 2h weapon still puts me at casting most of the time to hold agro, thus my DPS will suck no matter what.

So the only real benefit I could see from it would just be a slightly easier solo experience, but still not my preference.

[Wyvernwill]