Persistent Casting

[shiftie]

This aa much like others have an additive benefit.

Add persistent casting to quick buff and you have a better chance of landing spells you are constantly recasting - such as the ward of tunare line or steely stance. I'm sure it is hard to gauge the actual useful nature of this ability but you have to consider it a small part of the "whole" picture. Because everything a paladin casts is usually under the context of being hit by a mob I consider this valuable regardless of the chance to actually work. An enchanters main objective is to not get hit on a regular basis their whole role is to help control the chaos whereas a paladin spends most of his time making sure the mob is focused on him... As such anything that will allow a successful cast of a group heal, self buff, cure, radiant cure, aurora etc is going to show a much larger benefit than to a class who is spending their time avoiding getting hit. This is the reason when tanking multiples you find paladins using their horse to help reduce mob push or pinning themselves in a corner. This isn't exactly the first aa you should go buy, however it is an aa you should consider down the road. If I can help myself be able to cast aurora without being interrupted while soloing etc then I am going to go looking for any and every way to help that along. The fact that you are bickering over an aa when you are comparing apples and oranges is kinda funny. Every person playing the game will have different aa paths and each situation isn't exactly going to line up with what has been parsed.

If this ability saves you at least one time from death by allowing you to continue a heal cast then it has shown its usefulness in the real environment. And that pretty much ends any debate that could be had over how useful it is. The proc rate on the tribute second chance isn't very high but I still spend tribute points on it in hopes that it will fire.

shiftie

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

Giving everyone fearless as an ability would break a lot of raids, some mechanics are built around it and always have been - Pallorax for example. It is a game mechanic that the devs like to use on raids to create chaos. Fitting with lore for knights to be immune to it, and I believe most classes get a fear resistance aa just not the full immunity.

As far as immune to stun goes... sure I'd like it but it isn't something I would actively seek out, getting stunned on a pull adds to the adventure. When it screws up my casting it is annoying but they could go another route for us to channel through a hit.

Giving out fearless to all classes blurrs class lines even further and do we really want more of that? just sayin...
shiftie

[Unmei]

[shiftie]

[Wyvernwill]

I agree that handing out Fearless would merely make it so they stop ever bothering adding Fear to mobs in general (not like they use that mechanic much anymore anyway). I remember having it in PoP, it was a very crucial ability for raiding knights as it allowed raid fights to be "tuned for us" to be the better suited to handle and occasional boss than warriors.

As to stun immunity /shrug, don't need it, don't want it. Not saying that it wouldn't be nice to never have to worry about getting interrupted, but let's face it, we still have to worry about getting fizzles, etc. Part of the casting life.

And Unmei, I have to agree with Shiftie... an enchanter claiming they get hit a "lot" is a joke when they are trying to even come close to comparing to a tank. Our situations are not even remotely similar when it comes to casting under fire. Outside of raiding, the only time my fellowship's enchanter takes a hit is ramp/wild ramp, new add that agro'd enchanter, mez resist (rarely draws agro on a single resist though). Sure, raiding is a bit more risky largely because careless tanks and others will break a mez without properly engaging the mob first.

But those situations are a far cry from intentionally drawing the agro and incoming hits from every single mob... no matter how you feel like trying to stretch your awesome 'chanter tanking under pressure' theory.

[Ughbash]

[Ughbash]

[Brohg]

Doesn't work against hits, that's Channeling. Doesn't work against the special interrupt function of Kick/Bash, that's Dauntless Perseverance. Only works when you're actually stunned. 1) be casting (Bash only happens once every 6 seconds on monsters without attack speed mods on, less if slowed) 2) get Bashed - the Bash doesn't miss, and the Bash passes it's check to try to stun you, AND your item mod Stun Resistance fails, 3) only then even check for Persistent casting. ohbtw, it failed. Thanks for forty AA, chump, try your fancy spell again some time.

[Wyvernwill]

[Unmei]

[shiftie]

And in order to make xp gains these days paladins do silly things like go to illsalin and pull 10-15 mobs at once... how does your 6% chance to cast through a bash work now? When whether or not our uber 1.5 second castime ward of tunare spell line is the difference b/w life and death and the same could be said about our auorora spell...
I said earlier and I'll say it again. It all adds up. A paladin without this ability is going to have a greater chance of his spell being interrupted.

[knytul]

Hell no dont give warriors Fearless. Fearless makes it so i ACTUALLY get to tank raid mobs where warriors arent allowed.

[Unmei]

[shiftie]

[Brohg]

What does that make it better than, shiftie? Act of Valor? Innate stats? Certainly no melee defensive, melee offensive, spell offensive, or healing AA. What point are you arguing?

[Wyvernwill]

[Abazzagorath]

This thread (other than the original question) is stupid.

Persistent casting does ONE thing:

If you start casting a spell and get STUNNED (i.e. "You are stunned" message) you have a miniscule chance of casting the spell through the stun.

That's it.

It has nothing to do with reducing non-stunning interrupts from position or melee bash/kick. And yes, an NPC that kicks/bashes you can (i.e. has a chance to) interrupt your casting even if it doesn't stun you.

It was one of the most worthless AA when it came out back in Gates, and for anyone that was around back then, you might remember 3-4 months of posts on the old PoN ezboards where no one knew if it worked at all, or if it was broken. Eventually, one paladin (I can't recall who) screenshot it happening, and it was the first time the majority of us had ever seen it happen.

I don't call many aa totally worthless (bind wound ones can suck it) as a paladin, but persistent casting is one of the ones at the extreme bottom. With our stun resist aa and +stun resist on gear, we're rarely stunned anyway, even with mass mobs pulled on you. Persistent casting (at rank 3 from the gates versions) might go off for your average paladin 1 time every couple months of play.

I have no idea about the new SoD ranks, but I seriously doubt its much better. It has zero effect on making you less likely to get interrupted when you aren't stunned.

Think of it this way. How often are you stunned, while casting a spell? Now take maybe 3% of those instances and you would have gotten that one spell off. Seriously, watch your play for a few days and you'll realize how little that's really happening, and most of the time you're doing something like casting a stun for aggro anyway and it probably doesn't mean anything for it to get through.

[Unmei]

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

And some have agreed, then disagreed on the same topic.

Typically, Unmei is right. Opinionated, obnoxious on occasion, almost always humourously (humorously? excuse my Cdn spelling) sarcastic, but RARELY flat out wrong.

Brohg has only been wrong twice to my recollection, so don't even start on him. And actually, one of them was more of a 'projected' wrong than an actual factual wrong.

[Cellan]

I don't take an opinion to be right or wrong. Ok some paladins agree with Unmei, some don't. Does that mean everyone that doesn't agree with his INT caster opinion of the AA is wrong?

Again it was reminded by Abaz as to what this thread and ability can do.... channel thru a stun. Nothing more.

First problem with that idea is that we don't try to cast thru getting stunned..... WRONG.
Second presumption (or rather exclusion) is that it doesn't work on spell effects that stun you. WRONG.
Third probelm is that we don't see it working so it must not be working. WRONG.

You can break it down to a 6% chance of it ever needing to be worked and only a 50% of that it actually works. Number games with made up numbers are retarded. But let's take that and go ahead and say it's a 3% chance to work only 99% of the spells we cast (since those are casted while tanking). 3% must not mean anything.... I mean, when we were slaying 3% of the time I guess I missed the memo from all the paladins saying to not bother getting that AA. When people were critting 3% of the time when we had Combat Fury 3, it was a worthless AA too.

What a joke.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[shiftie]

lol... haha ... lol

cat... how does an e-peen have anything to do with making a reference that eludes to points we made earlier in the discussion that a silk class/int caster spends more time avoiding getting hit than your typical tank class. He should have worded it differently because sks are int casters no? Anyhow... posting eqplayers profiles was WIN. As if ones stats have anything to do with ones knowledge. I have better stats then paladins on here who parse things like heroic agi so in a way they are much more informed and I am much better geared. But I certainly wouldn't post my eqplayers to prove my point, unless my point was my gear is better... then again my big brother is bigger than your big brother.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[boukk]

[Cellan]

wow bigcat. I feel dumber now for trying to read your post. But shiftie is right, I should have reworded INT casters into something like robe-wearing-finger-twiddlers or pure casters or whatever.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[shiftie]

I don't disagree with what she said, the facts are there that it is a small gain in a simulated environment.

I didn't start backing up cellan, he used my argument to support his own. It isn't a matter of paladins supporting paladins either, I just get put off when a non community member starts discussing the virtues of a given ability. My experience varies greatly from hers. I don't begin to tell a shaman, enchanter or monk or any other class what aa path they should choose because I knowinlgy understand that I don't have the game experience to direct them properly. I have knowledge of what works for me but what is good for the goose isn't always good for the gander. I value each and every ability, even the laughed at AoV. I find it funny when people make jokes about it and they don't know the uses. Like a LoH chain when grouped with another paladin and you end up winning when you shouldn't -Or getting to a tough camp spot. I did find it hilarious that Nodyin made a joke of it though.

I did disagree with an avoidance based class making the claim. My point was that a silk class avoids getting hit and a paladin prides themselves on attracting the attention of every mob possible. As such her stated 6% gain is relative to the class whether or not anyone will admit it.

If i get hit 10000x and she gets hit 1000x 6% for me has a much larger chance at success just on the increase in total # of attempts.

Anyhow that is all I was meaning to say. I think the aa has merit, and that is my opinion and people can flame me for it if they like, but I am usually alive when other people are dead so my experiences lead me to this opinion.

I guess I never envisioned the idea that someone would look up my eqplayers or magelo to weigh in on whether or not they should listen to me.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

Yah. See what you are saying on that. And I do understand that you are saying at some level of AA, when you can choose between Unicorn visual upgrade or this AA, that you would go with this AA. I suspect a few of the Paladin brethren went with the Unicorn though for the shiney horn.

One of the points I was trying to make was that most folks are not limited to one class any more, and the game mechanics can cross to different classes, under different uses. I personally have and do play 5 -6 different classes. While I profess to expertise on almost none of them, it doesn't invalidate that I have reasonable knowledge of all. Unmei has a pretty good grasp on most of the game mechanics and was not comparing so much as illustrating the difference imho.

As to pulling in Eqplayers, it is a common tactic in WOW when such arguments arise and was opened up by Cellan when he started that int caster/rober wearer nonsense. And I stand by that it is a valid argument in some circumstances (certainly not all), and I hadn't looked at your eqplayers as you have proven by your discussion that you know what you are talking about.. hmm. Now I am curious though and will probably look it up when I get home tonight, if only to see what I might want if I ever bring my Paladin out of retirement.

PS: I still don't get that AOV, but there are a few folks that slyly support it (you, Knytul) so I suspect I am missing something important on that. Some kind of combo thing. Perhaps someday the light bulb will come on for me if I bring my paladin back.


Peace.

[shiftie]

For the fun of it... and one of the more well known uses. When a paladin runs out of mana he can LoH himself or a main tank. It is well known that LoH refreshes on death, so a paladin can sacrifice himself after he casts LoH it refreshes and with the addition of the powerful HoT (15k a tic plus) you can keep a 15k a tic HoT going for well over a minute. Say you had 2 paladins in the group... you get my drift. The other less known uses I will leave up to the imagination.

I have never played wow, i have only watched someone else play briefly. I don't have time for other games really. When I used to play console I only rented games because I beat them rather quickly and then never wanted to play again. I have never attained everything in eq though I have gotten close at expansion end.

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[Cellan]

[Bigcat Daddy-o]