The Spirit Realm

I have been reading this humongous thread over on SOE boards and I have a couple of questions.

[puts on flame retardant gear ]

I switched to my Paladin during POP as my main so was kind of unaware of this AA. It seems to directly affect int casters and extremely harmful to bards. Then I noticed some of the posters kept mentioning hybrids get this. So on my lunch time I went home and sure enough Rangers and SKs get it but Paladins don't.

I am somewhat mystified if SKs got this why didn't the Paladins. Apparently up until this hit they got to be fizzle free on any of their spells? Or am I reading that wrong. Many time I fizzle my stuns sometimes 3 times in a row yet they do not on their spells?

Can someone clue me in on this issue. Its more of a curiosity as to why since I have no way of going back to when POP AA were discussed to read it over.

The original aa was meant to stop at a relatively low level (55 or so with every aa) and thus be more of an extra thing for very specific purposes. If they had given it to clerics, they woulda had fizzle free CH's, which would be totally overpowered on mobs that reduce your spellcasting level. Also some of the cure spells are quite potent altho their level is rather low. I guess that's why priests were kept out of the picture.

And as it was said, it wasn't a free ticket, it was a bug. And now it's fixed. And I won't admit that all hybrids should have gotten it, even in its intended form, because I disagree with that.

I agree with Joks point of view. This topic is old and was closed with the fix imo.

About Dinadaurs call for new aggro spell line: how often do you loose aggro to nontanks? I dont know what you need, but on our raids (cod/tob/db) I can easily keep the aggro vs anybody else. And when I loose it to sk / warrior - so whats the problem? They can tank as well

Sorry if I don't see your point - but this crying for new aggro stuff starts to be boring. We have great tools - and normally - feel free to correct me - it covers all situations. But it can also depend on gear - I have 2.0 and BoFF.

"crying for new aggro stuff / it covers all situations"

Sacred Force Rk. II Detail | History | Timer | Raw Data

Slot Description
1: Stun(4.00 sec/75)

Mana: 80 Skill: Evocation
Casting Time: 1 Recast Time: 12
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Resist Adjust: -45 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Fizzle Adj: 87 Hate Generated: 2000
Deletable: No Interruptable: Yes
Timer ID: 4 Target Type: Single
Spell Type: Detrimental Category: Stun [Targeted]
Source: Live 05/16

Classes: PAL/71
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Sacred Force Rk. II

Cast on you: You are struck by a sudden force.
Cast on other: Someone is struck by a sudden force.

Force of Prexus Rk. II Detail | History | Timer | Raw Data

Slot Description
1: Stun(4.00 sec/75)

Mana: 100 Skill: Evocation
Casting Time: 1 Recast Time: 12
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Resist Adjust: -55 Range: 200
Location: Any Time of Day: Any
Hate Generated: 2250 Deletable: No
Interruptable: Yes Timer ID: 5
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Category: Stun [Targeted] Source: Live 05/16

Classes: PAL/75
Duration: Instant
Items with spell: Spell: Force of Prexus Rk. II

Cast on you: You are stunned by a wave of saltwater.
Cast on other: Someone is stunned by a wave of saltwater.

our stuns.

recast 12. rightly so, they stun mobs. if the recast were six, mobs would remain stunned without break. this is if the stun duration remained the same. we don't want this. OVERPOWERING.

recast 12, meaning a stun every 6, meaning 2000 + 2250 = 4,250 per 12 second cycle (both stuns cast) AGGRO.

Hand of Disruption Detail | History | Raw Data

Slot Description
1: Unknown #343 (100/100/0)

Mana: 0 Casting Time: 1
Recast Time: 0 Fizzle Time: 0
Resist: Magic Resist Adjust: -50
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Hate Generated: 600

You STILL cant maintin off that aggressive berserker. Off hand, can't remember the recast of HoD. It doesn't matter. 4,250 + 600 = 4,850 per 12 second cycle.

We could quote personal experience left and right, but lets stick with the facts.
A berserker has the ability to exceed 4,850 per 12 using his damaging abilities. A TSS geared rogue has the ability to exceed 4,850 per 12 doing normal group dps stuff.

You CANNOT keep solid aggro off of these people. Think about the quality of play. You're sitting there, mashing stuns, adding in bash for added effect.

LETS SAY you are going full blast, every twelve seconds you are Casting 3 Spell Gems (TSS / TBS + challenge) an AA ability (hod) and a bash (fast refresh) - 5 keys that are getting hit at least once every 12 second cycle. This, the maximum output of a paladin, is STILL insufficient for group content situations.

IT IS MY BELIEF that a Paladin's aggro potential per 12 second cycle SHOULD be powerful enough to hold aggro off EVERY non - tank. Our Max Potential should dwarf any class who's primary function is not aggro. Consider clerics druids and shaman healing to that of a beast ranger and paladin.

Once you've got your mind around that, the question is, how do we do it.
Options as i see it, increase aggro on stuns even more (don't want this, marries us even more to stuns) OR give us a new spell line or two, STUNS WITH NO STUN COMPONENT TO BALANCE THE RECAST TIMER BY - you could give them similar aggro levels to current stuns (current top two are 2,000, 2,250) Make the value around 2 - 2.5k and make the recast 6 seconds instead of 12.

What does this do, why is it worth doing?

every 12, 2,000 + 2,000 (new stun line 1 cast twice) 2,000 + 2,000 (new stun line 2 cast twice) 8,000 every 12.

We've doubled our aggro over time.

Now to balance it. Because these new aggro lines are a massive increase in aggro, the cuts WILL come. One idea that may not be very good in the long run: Tie them to current stuns. One tied to the TSS line of direct aggro perhaps, One tied to the TBS line of direct aggro. WE CANT use these non-stuns and still have our stunning spells intact, in order to have greater aggro we give up the stun component.

Now, we'd also get the usual upgrades to the stun lines like we'd have to to have the ability to stun up to 80.

Bottom line is versatility. We are a class of versatility, we have abilities that let us do alot of interesting things; however this is a real problem with aggro. There is a problem when a paladin doing all he can cannot maintain aggro if the gear difference is too great. A stunning paladin isn't going to be swinging much, his gear won't matter as much as the spells he has. A dps'ing rogue's weapons ARE the source of his aggro, the better weps the better the dps and the greater aggro - these rogues are upgrading their aggro through weapons, and our spells aren't keeping in line with the heights these items reach. give us the option to decide if the situation warrents more aggro - perhaps even for just a round or two, for the ability to have increased burst aggro on inc or perhaps the first few rounds of a fight. the main point is the recast timer, with a faster recast we can chain faster and compete with the best of 'em.

I'd settle for one new line, something that isn't a stun, but has direct aggro attached to it - heh, hell, want a stun timer nobody gives a shit about? put it on the stun + DD knockback we get every damn expansion ;p.

very cool

They are currently revamping AA window/tabs/classifications on test.In the process they added mastery of the past to all casting classes now even pal gets it.Its currently 3/3/3/5/5/5/7/7/7 AAs to buy the 9 ranks.Its currently scaled so last rank gives you no fizzles on 71 spells and less.A decent change imho no more fizzle on :wave of piety/ward of tunare/ancient force of jeron/sacred force/sacred touch/absolve/crusader purity/rgc/shackles of tunare/divine aura are the most noticeables spells that ( and there lower level conterpart) can make a difference.