Challenge for Honor Rehash

[Bruennor]

So, its been a while, what is everyone's view on this spell?

My view is that it was interesting at the start, but now it just doesnt earn a spot on my spell list unless I am soloing. Couple of reasons for this...

1. While it does have a -45 magic resist check, it is still resisted far too often on group content, and most of the time on raid.

2. If it does hit, it deals 666 aggron on the rk1 spell. It takes 6 seconds for it to deal out the aggro of the stuns that go by the old rules of 1200 to 1300 hate, so it basically equals those spells in the long haul, but due to the fact that the long haul is not long enough in group content and raid content, this spell gets one cast, if its lucky, before the mob is dead. Due to the low aggro output of the initial hit, assuming it lands, it is worthless to catch mobs that are inc on raids, and if you are debuffing, it is worthless to use to tag mobs on inc in groups as well.

3. The lack of a hate override hurts alot. It effectively makes tagging with this spell more than worthless.

4. Due to being required to cast the spell after using high aggro stuns, the spell doesnt even get to see 1/3 of its potential on alot of group mobs, and basically all raid trash mobs.

5. Cast time really should be the same as a stun.

I feel this should become a weekly question. For me, the question should read something like this..

Challenge for Honor is not able to keep up with either the group or raid game in EQ. Due to basically needing a tash or bard debuff on to land it consistantly, you can't rely on it, even if it does hit, to hold aggro off debuffers. Also, if it is resisted, the paladin just wasted precious seconds on engage trying to cast a spell that is not as useful as a stun, even a resisted one. You can wait till later in the fight to cast it, but then it becomes less than one cast of Force of Akera as the mob will die shortly after the spell lands. Some idea's to make it work better would be putting it on force of akera's timer, giving it a hate override and initial aggro of 1200 so it can replace force of akera. The resist issue is ok if the spell generates the same aggro as a resisted stun when it is resisted. Also, to keep the 1200 hate from being chain casted, give the spell a 12 second refresh, just like a stun. Lastly, it would be helpful if the spell could be made a 1 second cast time, the same as stuns. By doing this, Challenge for Honor can officially replace the paladins third stun in all content, and be a useful spell for a long, long time to come.

Anyway, this is my thread for a month, Happy New Year folks.

[Anngelus]

I happen to usually keep this memd on group content. Mind you I am not talking FC or Ashengate. But when I do my nest runs (for MDS) or other as such, I will tag an add that has been mezd and slowed, and by the time the mob we are on dies (presuming of course it is near 60+ health, I can run up, smack the mob and have aggro, no need for initial taunt / stun to get top on aggro list. so then 2 stuns and I am far above the group on hate. I also use this on those occasions that I am pulling. It starts to gain hate while inc, and an initial stun just into camp and you can usually lock aggro. Mind you I like to pull and do it alot, maybe it is the monk in me

Edit: I do agree though that it has less than a minor usefulness in raid content, and the spell gem can be used for greater good (curing, etc)

[ZsaZsa Vavoom]

[Wyvernwill]

[Tuathadendannan]

[thurvok]

[Kneesmasher]

[Wyvernwill]

[Galelor]

[Bruennor]

[Ashramm Damodred]

[Nyterose]

[Kneesmasher]

[Bruennor]

[Silmare]

[Nyterose]

[Hulkling]

I tried to use it for a very long time, but after losing agro on several occations, I no longer mem it. It just doesn't pack enough instant agro punch for me. I used it to pull in MPG when I was boxing a bard, and the mob would go straight to the bard...the damn bard song was more agro than the initial CoH agro.

I'm all about instant agro at the beginning of a fight, and this just didn't hold up to my expectations.

The recourse is nice...if you are fighting level 45 mobs. More often than not it drops on the 1st melee round if you are fighting in any zone a lvl 75 is supposed to be fighting in.

[Wyvernwill]

Well, Hulkling. You're the one that can bring change about with CFH, if any of us could.

I am not opposed to Paladins looking for a change to the spell, because ultimately, I think it's fine in it's current incarnation, but it could be better than it currently is as well.

Here's a listing of the things that we need to prove and provide to get devs to open their eyes to this spell and it's issues:
1) What is the purpose of the spell? (Is this spell meant for initial agro generation on a pull, or is it meant to be a supplement to the 3rd stun spell as well as provide a recourse that is meaningfull?)

2) Is our recourse more/less powerful than the SK recourse? If you constantly refreshed CFH only when it falls off of a mob, does it provide more/equal/less defensive return than the recourse from it's exact counterpart? (This is the key, imo, critical point that has to be addressed. Ours is limited to a set damage amount from a % per hit... the SKs is unlimited over 30 seconds. However, does the AC boost they get actually prevent more or less damage than our spell? At first glance, I would assume so, but then again, AC is subject to that wonderful bell-curve effect... so in some cases it's probably substantially better, others it's not.)

3) Does it generate enough hate per mana to justify it's existance? (iMO yes. The amount of ticks, this provides far more agro over time than the stun I would use in it's place *Lesson of Penitence*)

4) Is the resist check set right that is makes it viable to use in most situations without initial hate? (This is a mixed bag. Casting this spell on raids and having it resisted is really bad, especially for our role generating agro. However, this spell being unresistable and better than the Bazu line for warriors would also be bad. For it to be unresisted ever, I would expect a far greater casting cost.)

This is the problem we ran into with the Paladin class and always do... even in beta. We can't agree on squat. We're too busy focusing on other things, that rarely do we offer up good view points when it's easier to get a fix put in. We have two groups of Paladins in this case, ones that like the spell the way it is, and ones that don't. The problem is, it's fairly balanced... for everyone that likes it, someone dislikes it, or so it seems.

But that's my thoughts on this matter atleast.

[Hulkling]

[Wyvernwill]

[Hulkling]

[Galelor]

[Hulkling]

[Galelor]

[Hulkling]

[Wyvernwill]

[Dray]

[Galelor]

Good research Dray