The Spirit Realm

Website · by **knytul** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:09 pm

Im curious bud, what exactly is being done from the CC community about this slap to the face on Hand of Piety from your position??

by **Hulkling** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:25 pm

well, after figuring out what "setting the recast to zero" meant, I explained how our play style has been adapted and tuned to how Hand of Piety heals. I then asked if they could not take the recast all the way down to zero, but leave it at something more appropriate. They said they'd readjust it (which is what nodyin posted on the Vet's Lounge as well). No clue on ETA, or what heal amount will be.

Website · by **dindaur** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:45 pm

seems like yer doing all ya can hulk. maybe they'll give us larger Hop's with some tweak in the future.

by **Hulkling** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:56 am

Yeah they're fully aware of how pissed off almost every single paladin is right now. Nothing more I can really add to it, unless we come up with some reasonable ideas for a comprimise that I can pass on to the Devs.

Speaking of which, does anyone know what the +Healing Amount cap is? If we know the cap, then we could throw some numbers together and give suggestions as to what the recast delay could/should be set to.

by **Hulkling** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:27 pm

OK I need help here guys! Does anyone have a log of thier HoP casts before the nerf? Specifically logs with HoP crits heals, since that would give the exact amount it was healing for. Also post what +Healing Amount total you had for that log if possible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some more info: The arbitrary recast in Spell Data for AAs has nothing to do with actual in-game recast. The actual in-game recast is set in some other unknown field (well it might be known, but I don't know it offhand, and it really doesn't matter!). The recast for HoP was set to 72 minutes, or 4320 seconds in the Spell Data. The +Healing Amount supposedly uses the arbitrary recast form the Spell Data. This is what I'm not convinced of.

The formula for determining how much extra healing comes from +Healing Amount mod3 is ((cast+recast)/7)*your Heal Amont mod.

So for HoP: cast time is zero, recast is 4320. We'll use my Healing Amount mod for the example, which is 20 total.

((0+4320)/7)*20 = 12342. My base heal is 4000 (yeah I'm slacking) with 1.28 adept the grand total is 17462. Unfortunaley I cleared my logs recently, so I have no evidence of what HoP used to heal for. But, that'd be nearly a 35k crit heal on HoP.....I most certainly would have noticed that. I don't ever recall my HoP healing for 17k or 35k crit. My best recollection was between 11k and 12k, and 23k-24k crits.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point being, and what we need to find out, is what recast was being used to calculate the +Healing Amount for HoP. I don't believe its the arbitrary 72 minutes that was in the SPDAT. I think it actually used the 36 minutes on the in-game recast.

So, please post your logs if you have them

by **Tallanor** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:52 pm

I don't have logs to prove it but with all aa's, an 60% lvl 80 heal focus and with a 18 heal amount mod I have seen it hit for normal around the 16-17 range and crit for 35K. I basically used it as a group loh when I had too. However, last night in Frostcrypt with it being re-tuned it did not have the effect it normally does, and in the heat of things, it definately wasn't the paladin saving the group aspect it had been. Of course its only after the seeing the info here do I realize why it didn't do as I expected in that situation. Just another thing to relearn how to play, I guess, but this expansion, I have had plenty of opportunities to relearn how to do different things with all the "broken" items associated with the paladin class, guess I should just be used to it by now.

How do they make it better, I couldn't say, the only thing I can think of is increasing the return on the aa's, or adding more ranks to it then they did. It was an odd feeling though when I first trained those aa's to see it do quite more then was expected. It clearly shouldn't have done what it was able to, but the nerf does make relearning when best to use it again a new learning curve.

While this is a prime issue, I think the stopcasting issue is the top fix needed to get nailed down in my opinion. Any news on aurora of marrow, or the undead bane dam portion of righteous fury being fixed?

Edited heal amount number, wasn't logged in to check at the time and magelo doesn't maintain that stuff

by **Hulkling** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:07 pm

Website · by **palignome** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:43 pm

Not sure how much help munbers from non-maxed people will be, but for pure number-crunching maybe it won't hurt:)

16 Heal Amount, 5/15 ranks of HoP so far; 30% to 80 focus, 9/9 Healing Adept, 13/15 Healing Gift.

but here's what I was getting before the patch.

[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You begin casting Hand of Piety.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You have healed Starreyn for 468 points.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You feel a healing touch. You have been healed for 4740 points.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] Starreyn performs an exceptional heal! (9481)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (9481)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (ranger1)feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (mage) feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] Starreyn performs an exceptional heal! (9030)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (9030)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (mage pet)feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You have healed (shaman1) for 4092 points.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (shaman1) feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You have healed (shaman2) for 417 points.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (shaman2) feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] Starreyn performs an exceptional heal! (9481)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (9481)
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] You have healed (ranger2) for 3735 points.
[Wed Jul 02 06:20:39 2008] (ranger2) feels a healing touch

Starreyn, Drinal
(with sadly outdated Magelo)

by **Hulkling** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:52 am

thank you palignome, although that just makes everything more complicated lol. None of the numbers add up.

are you absolutely positive with your heal amount at the time? Cuz with 16 heal amount the numbers are waaaay off.

Website · by **palignome** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:17 am

absolutely positive - only upgrades since then were one wrist (no healing on old or new) and my 2H, again no healing on either. I did have my lvl 70 aura up if that makes the mumbers fit better. Not sure if anything the rangers or shammies were doing would have made a difference?

Starreyn, Drinal

by **Hulkling** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:32 am

aye I noticed the Aura difference, and I don't think any other class has +% heal amount abilities. Thanks for the verification

I'd still like to see a number of more parses if anyone else has them.

Website · by **knytul** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:21 am

[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You begin casting Hand of Piety.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You have healed Person A for 3248 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Person A feels a healing touch.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Knytul performs an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You have healed Person B for 2270 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Person B feels a healing touch.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Knytul performs an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You have healed Knytul for 20103 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You feel a healing touch. You have been healed for 28173 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Knytul performs an exceptional heal! (26832)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (26832)
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You have healed Person C for 3554 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Person C feels a healing touch.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] You have healed Person D for 790 points.
[Mon Jun 30 20:52:38 2008] Person D feels a healing touch.

Btw thats MAX Healing AA's, NO Healing focus whatsoever, prenerf. The 26-28k crit range was what i was used to seeing on my Hand of Piety...Now, i only see 12-14k crits. Not even 50% of my raidbuffed hp. Heal Amount 13. Also i dont use our Aura so count that out.

[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] You begin casting Hand of Piety.
[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (13987)
[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] Person E feels a healing touch.
[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (13322)
[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] You have healed Knytul for 13322 points.
[Wed Jul 09 21:14:29 2008] You feel a healing touch. You have been healed for 13322 points.

These 13k crits, i have Sanguine gloves then, the previous 20+k crits i didnt.

http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/chara ... 8216480783

heres my eqplayers link...double check at will if u want

by **Hulkling** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:30 am

excellent thx Kyntul

Website · by **Veril** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:24 pm

by **Hulkling** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:53 pm

ah yeah thanks, I did find that out a few minutes after posting. Forgot to mention that

Good catch.

Website · by **knytul** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:14 pm

this is what i dont get. I went from 28k crits, down to 13k crits. But Healing Amount now is supposed to counter that massive drop? How much are we looking for Healing amount to add: 1k healing per +Heal Amount?

Website · by **Brohg** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:37 am

No, that's how much Healing Amount DID add. Healing Amount was adding that extra 15k due to some inappropriate spell data. That spell data was removed, and now the heal is back to its base. In the unknowable future, it may be decided by the lead developer that HoP deserves to benefit some from Healing Amount again, but worlds less than it did before. Perhaps it'll benefit on the same scale that spell-cast group heals currently do.

Website · by **knytul** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:42 am

Honestly, for a heal i cant use but like Twice an hour....28k crit heal is Perfect. not overpowering, hell doesnt even CH some classes. Personally id like to see all our heals tuned up. Our HoT's be tuned up to be more powerful than a HoT PoT, Our Group heal to hit some good 5 digit crits (like 12k for example), Bursts id prolly leave alone since they do some good heals as is, Hand of Piety have the base at max aa's be like 12k with chance to crit and affected by heal Amount Mod3's.

An idea that was brought to me earlier, was with Lay Hands, maybe add a HoT recourse onto it. Major Burst heal Initially followed by like a 12 second HoT recourse on whoever was LH'd. Personally i like the idea (kinda borrows somethin from SK's Harm Touch) and answers the thread about LH bein possibly wasted.

But overall, our healing is severly underpowered and needs to come up. Especially with the more and more lack of healers in game. Since i know the dev's LOVE to take before they give, just take our Tunare line of buffs since they are trashed anyway.

Website · by **Goldax1** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:15 am

Nodyn have already posted what is gonna be done to counter the uproar that has been going on.

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... 75#1950226

But in a nutshell the AA heals are gonna get a boost of 50 percent.

Goldax

by **Blabberpuss Stryyker** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:44 am

[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] DOOD feels a healing touch.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You have healed DOOD for 417 points.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] DOOD feels a healing touch.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You have healed DOOD for 700 points.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] DOOD feels a healing touch.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (27636)
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You have healed Blabberpuss for 1002 points.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You feel a healing touch. You have been healed for 27636 points.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You perform an exceptional heal! (28173)
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] You have healed DOOD for 691 points.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] DOOD feels a healing touch.
[Sun Jul 06 21:37:05 2008] DOOD feels a healing touch.

by **Hulkling** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:00 am

by **Hulkling** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:24 am

FYI +Healing Amount will still effect HoP/LoH, but its set to the minimun, which will yeild like less than 10 extra hit points healed. So, although it does effect it, its still basically null and void for all intents and purposes.

So now heres the old amount healed per rank vs the +50%:

1. (750) 1125
2. (1000) 1500
3. (1250) 1875
4. (1500) 2250
5. (1750) 2625
6. (2000) 3000
7. (2220) 3330
8. (2440) 3660
9. (2667) 4000
10. (3111) 4666
11. (3556) 5334
12. (4000) 6000
13. (4400) 6600
14. (4800) 7200
15. (5200) 7800

So if you got rank 15 with max Adept, your heal will be 10062, or a 20k crit. That looks like pretty darn good comprimise IMO.

Website · by **knytul** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:22 pm

not so fast Hulk, first thing is itll be probably 2 weeks to 6 years before these new amounts go live. 2ndly just because Nodyin posts 1 thing, and we get another is good enuf reason to never settle on "good enuf for me". I for one will still be on teh dev's ass Until its gone live AND proven Efficient.

While this may be a decent "start" to us receiving our jsut dues, it is nowere near an end my friend. They still owe us ALOT of boosting. And Next....should be our HoT line.

Website · by **Normy** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:41 pm

If that change makes it live, then I really like it. It is a good compromise and leaves the AA line still feeling useful.

by **Hulkling** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:49 pm

I've yet to see Nodyin go back on anything he's said. There is a patch this Thursday. I have confidence.

Website · by **knytul** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:08 pm

its not what he says that i am worried about, its about what is not said that i do worry about.

by **Hulkling** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:32 pm

lol yeah good point.....

Website · by **dindaur** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:53 am

Website · by **knytul** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:37 pm

i wont believe it to be a cool fix until after we test it. Look at everything he said about Tunare.....they "fixed it"...and look what we have now....

Website · by **Unmei** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:51 pm

Website · by **knytul** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:02 am

6 years of eq auto grants u suspicion. Too many times have they done patches and nerfed us without even posting it anywhere...Ninjanerf's. Nowere did they say theyd do an 50% decrease to our abilities either....just fix Recast delay...

Website · by **Unmei** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:55 am

Website · by **Ghirador** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:12 pm

Website · by **dindaur** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:56 pm

you can't compare a paladin to a raid npc

Website · by **Unmei** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:10 am

Website · by **Normy** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:50 pm

While I can see being annoyed watching an NPC you like killing chain LoH on himself, it really isn't in need of a fix. If XP mobs started doing that, its a problem, but if you can overcome his healing with a few mages then hes still easily raided. Yea, I know, who puts together a raid to take down Seru these days?

Anyway, keep in mind that some actual raid targets have regen that is probably greater than LoH every tick. And they hit for a great deal more and have a huge HP base. Would it have made you feel any better if they made his regen massive to avoid solo farmers?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I don't like the idea of NPC's chaining LoH, because then shouldn't NPC's also be chaining Harm Touch? But I doubt any devs are going to see this as a real problem and dedicate any time to fixing it.

Website · by **Sabby** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:46 pm

Did this not ever get fixed? While playing tonight (and I have almost completely retired) the first time in months, I hit HoP and my critical heals were 13985 - They used to be about 28k... and then I read this thread, it said we'd have them about 20k once it is fixed and the dates are from a month ago, is it getting fixed or another thing we pallies need to get used to?

Website · by **Brohg** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:36 am

No game changes in the weeks leading up to FanFaire. Expect any pending changes to go live this week, Wed or so.

Website · by **Sabby** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:31 am

Website · by **shiftie** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:11 am

they fixed it... i'm getting 20k crits

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