Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

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Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Beezy » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:15 pm

Hello all, I wrote up a little guide on how I dps, and I know some people in serverwide channel had asked me what I do and how I do it. I wrote this guide late at night so I may have forgotten some things, or it may look like crap lol! I initially wrote this for our guild paladins who were way slacking in doing some dps.

When dps'ing a lot of it will be coming from spell damage, and not so much from melee (although burning discs we can hit quite hard). The primary spells I use for burning are below, also be sure you are using an elemental tonic of XV or XVI:

Crush of Oseka --- This also has hate built into it, which is why I said make sure tank has aggro and you have balefire
Paean -- Even though its meant for undead it still puts a nuke out which can crit nicely
Crush of Tides -- Same info as Crush of Oseka
Elegy -- This is like Paean, and it is on DIFFERENT timer as paean, so can rotate them
Disruptive Pesecution -- AA can crit for 30k+ and also has deaggro built into it
Glroious Expulcation (sp??) -- Normally used to get the heal twincast, although its great for spell dps

That is the normal spells I for dpsing, it is also nice that you can cast marr's salvation on yourself to help with aggro if you need to. Using this for dps and no marr's I usually get aggro around 45-55% on the boss health, then I hit balefire which resets your aggro immediately.

For melee burn (to be used in conjunction with the above spells), all on 1 hotkey I have it activate:

Pureforge Discipline
Righteous Vexation
Second Spire of the Holiness
Inquisitor's Judgement
Valorous Rage

All of the above discs / aa stack with each other, and on procs of righteous you can crit hit for up to 40k on a single swing, or 170k on an undead (with a slay). Most of those aa's last about 1 minute or maybe a little longer (I know pureforge lasts 2 mins) so a paladin can do very good dps on burns 1 min or less, if you do everything right.

You may ask "With me hitting as hard as 40k, why would I want to use spells?" That is a very good question, except for the fact paladin swings arent as good as say a zerker or even sk's, paladins have less innate chance of triple attacks etc then other classes. Spells play a vital role in our dps burns, and under 1 minute, its not uncommon to see a pally put out over 40k dps or so with no support groups.

There arent really many clickies we can use to help our burns, outside from glyphs if you have max aa, which I recommend Glyph of the Cataclysm.

If you have any questions or would like more info, or help with your burn you can either post here or send me a tell ingame and I would be then glad to help you!

Here is the data for the aa and discs I have listed above:

Pureforge Discipline Rk. III
Class: PAL(90)
Endurance: 1898, Upkeep: 20 per tick
Target: Self
Range: 200.0
Resist: Unresistable
Casting: Instant, Recast: 20m, Timer: 11
Duration: 2m (20 ticks)
Dispellable: No
Hate: 1

Bathes your weapon in pure light, providing a chance to do strike more often and deal more damage to your foes for 2m.

Slot 1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 340%
Slot 2: Increase Chance to Crippling Blow by 40%
Slot 3: Increase Chance to Triple Attack by 50%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Righteous Vexation Rk. III when proced

Vexed Strike III
Class: PAL(93)
Target: Single
Range: 50.0
Resist: Unresistable
Casting: Instant

Strikes your foe with righteous anger.

Slot 1: 2H Slashing Attack for 600 with 1,000% Accuracy Mod
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Second Spire of Holiness
Target: Self
Range: 100.0
Resist: Magic
Casting: Instant
Duration: 1m30s (15 ticks)
Dispellable: No

You gather your strength and focus your mind which grants you additional damage with all of your attacks. Additional ranks increase your damage bonus.

Slot 1: Increase All offensive skills by 64

----------------------------------------------------------
Inquisitor's Judgement Procs

Inquisitor's Judgment Effect (this ability CAN crit)
Target: Single
Range: 100.0
Resist: Magic -300, Max: 50.0%
Casting: Instant
Hate: -1400

You have been judged.

Slot 1: Decrease Current HP by 4000

-----------------------------------------------------------
Valorous Rage
Target: Self
Range: 100.0
Resist: Magic
Casting: Instant
Duration: 1m (10 ticks)
Dispellable: No

You embrace the rage within...

Slot 1: Decrease Healing by 40%
Slot 2: Limit Effect: Hitpoints
Slot 3: Decrease AC by 345
Slot 4: Increase Critical All offensive skills Damage by 325%
Slot 5: Decrease Weapon Delay by 20%


If anybody has any info to add to it PLEASE add it and I will edit my post. Maybe we can also get this stickied for returning paladins????
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby shiftie » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:17 am

TAKE OFF YOUR AGGRO MASK lulz

You don't want to use elemental damage, but rather resonant magic, it hits for more dmg.

Keeping a junk buff in the first slot to click off just before engaging your burn key making sure that Righteous Indignation/vexation hits the first buff slot to assign proc priority. Inquisitors judgement has a higher proc rate and will fire off in 60 seconds regardless, Righteous has a bit lower proc rate and benefits the most.


UF BP click probably adds the most dps as it doesn't add proc competition and the damage it provides isn't resisted whereas the HoT/VoA bps get resisted quite a bit. The downside is the UF bp is a swarm pet and the only time you should actually use it is if the mob is perma rooted for push or if your guild isn't lagging the zone with swarm pets (this is a major problem and lowers overall guild dps so don't be a retard about it.)

Overall using the HoT/VoA clicks are your best bet, lowering guild dps expands fight times and reduces your max burn number anyways :P

You will want to make a multi-bind key for your nukes. You listed the nukes to use but left out the order.

DP > Glorious > Paean > elegy > crush (long recast) > crush (short recast) > denouncement

DP should be recast every time it is up (9 sec recast) and if you have done it right will fit b/w your normal spells. The biggest burst is to Cast DP > glorious > Paean > elegy > DP > crush 1 forceful rejuv then glorious > paean > DP > elegy > crush 1 > crush 2. At least I think that is the order that they fall. After the use of Forceful, you can use denouncement/reprimand to fill the gaps that will come when you aren't casting it is up to you. I didn't do much testing with the dps boost or drop after they nerfed denounce in HoT to reverse the healing and DD.

I don't put 2nd spire on the burn key b/c I was always using first and I usually put 7th yr vet/ 2nd spire/ glyph of cata on another hotkey for the pure luxury burn.

There are the two BP from OMM that have a .5 sec cast DD click that you can use in b/w nuke casts or in the downtime instead of using denounce/reprimand.

Crystal of daylight clicky - only use if a shaman isn't around otherwise it will get overwritten. Only preload this don't try and channel this once the fight starts and you've hit your burn shit. If you are going to do this hit it before you turn on attack and before your burn stuff but after you get RI/V into the top slot.

If you have a chanter in your group and you are going to be doing a luxury burn, buff block healing twincast recourse from glorious to make use of their twincast aura which will up your dps quite a bit. Make sure to drop the buff block when the fight is over.

HDEX is decent for dps etc so if you have the extra raid currency from this expansion, buying an up todate mask/belt (because you should be using the shawl in belt slot if you are worth a damn). Then load those up with some High Hdex augs you should be able to find a couple of hdex augs that are hp only to slide onto these items. This of course is min maxing to the max and isn't needed.

Circle of power III - people might forget to click theirs, never hurts to click yours.

If you don't have 7th you will want group guardian of the forest, or group beastial alignment for the all skills mods (or get a kill shot LOLOLOLOL). On a raid you should get hit with all the other good buffs that are ae. If you are in a DPS, DPS group try to get things like thief's eyes, Kolos' fury. 7th is going to make a drastic difference (too drastic IMO).

hmmm... This is the only parse I could find without digging through logs, of course this is a full dps group with KF etc (with pride) but is a live mob. There are no good undead burns I never got a dps group for the 30 of seconds of glory on the ToFS raid before I quit raiding.

/GU Herald of Oratory in 47s, 3860k @82131dps --- Shiftee 3860k @82131dps

/tell Shiftee Shiftee -vs- Herald of Oratory: -- DMG: 3860179 -- DPS: 82131 -- Scaled: 82131 -- Slash: 2948211 -- DirDmg: 911968 -- Non-crit rate: 73.7% -- crit rate: 18.9% -- crippling rate: 7.4% -- Attempts: 287 -- Hits: 270 -- Missed: 17 -- Accuracy: 94.1% -- Avg Hit: 14296 -- Max hit: 84274 -- DMG to PC: 0

[Tue Jan 17 19:53:03 2012] Qulas tells roiparse:5, '/GU Herald of Oratory in 49s, 86192k @1759024dps --- Rogue 5103k @108569dps (5.92&PCT;) --- Rogue 4859k @101229dps (5.64&PCT;) --- Rogue 4627k @98456dps (5.37&PCT;) --- Zerker 4265k @90740dps (4.95&PCT;) --- Zerker 4194k @89237dps (4.87&PCT;) --- Zerker 4050k @88040dps (4.7&PCT;) --- Monk pets 3931k @83647dps (4.56&PCT;) --- Shiftee 3860k @82131dps (4.48&PCT;) --- Ranger 3700k @84091dps (4.29&PCT;) --- Ranger 3667k @83343dps (4.25&PCT;)'

All of thse burn #'s are subjective to rng and some classes can do much more than what is here. This was week #2 after beating Sep I think, so not everyone had max weapons and fight length and overall dps get jacked from the spell shield that goes up for everyone that nukes and was def not the max burn possible on that. We stopped full raiding it the next week I think.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Beezy » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:26 pm

Ah yes magic damage I was at work and couldnt remember which one it was exactly lols!

Meh screw taking off my aggro mask, I dont have another one to replace it right now and I dont usually get aggro that much /shrug. I havent read the rest of your post so I cant comment on it yet lols!

Ah nice I didnt know the crystal daylight clicky actually did anything lol, ill have to get that quest and complete it.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Kidas52 » Mon May 14, 2012 12:54 pm

So confusing, so you just spam those spells? Or try to weave them after you attack? I would also assume that only after you max spell critting would this be viable during your melee discs?
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby joks » Sun May 27, 2012 3:34 pm

I didn't see anyone mentioning yaulp! Of course it doesn't stack with rangers hp/atk buff, but it's a nice chunk of atk + proc rates.

Is crystal of daylight better dps than our selfbuff? Does the proc damage aa work on it? Just noticed that zealous fury is only listed as 656 base damage - that's not a lot.. But I seem to proc for over 3k with aa's.

*edit* just tested: With max aa's, my self buff procs for 3721, crit 5143. Spirit of undeath procs 513, crit 1462 (those numbers with 453 spell damage). I guess if you have enough buff slots, you could cast both of them.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Kidas52 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:06 am

so to do good dps you have to have all the proc aa's and all the spell crit aas along with all the weapon dmg aas
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby shiftie » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:10 am

Kidas52 wrote:so to do good dps you have to have all the proc aa's and all the spell crit aas along with all the weapon dmg aas


Knowing beezy and from what I added - this write up was made with 95th level paladins and high aa counts in mind.

If you are lacking in AA's you will see far less overall DPS, but I figured that much is a given. When you get to max AA in a non burn situation your melee/spell dps should be very close to an even 50/50 split. If you get the melee AA but lack the spell dps AA you will probably see it closer to a 80/20 split so long as you are casting.

If you are low on aa count but purchase Valorous Rage and Inquisitors judgement you will see a nice boost from both but IJ is going to give much less of a return because without the spell dps aa it won't hit for as much damage though it will still proc out in 60 seconds or so. The contributions of other classes ADPS is going to favor melee heavily as ADPS for the most part is strongly in favor of melee to begin with.

Somewhere on this board I made a post about passive and activated AA that will give you a decent bang for your buck.

Always keep in mind that Paladins aren't a dps class. For three years of game play we fell way way behind warriors and sks. Beginning in Seeds of Destruction we got 2nd spire (which is actually a pathetic addition to dps compared to some other class spires) and the crush line of nukes to be used on content we couldn't stun (most of the expansion was immune to stun). Midway through UF we got access to disruptive persecution and Inquisitors judgement as part of the devs effort to help restore some semblance of balance. In HoT we gained more ranks of IJ/DP as well as gaining Valorous rage and a few additional nukes outside the aggro spells. These nukes were the first real nukes to be used on "live" mobs and because of that and the addition of things like resonant potions we began to see the decline of melee dominated sustained DPS and closer to the 50/50 split I mentioned.

If you wanted to you could cast 0 spells and not click IJ in a burn situation and only lose about 20k dps from fully supported burn which would have made my parse above 62k in that same time frame if that gives you any indication of the multiplicative nature of melee combat/dps.

Inside of a burn we are ahead of warriors and behind sks unless you have access to 7th year vet in which case it is likely you will surpass both of them depending on your timing/skill and knowledge of the game.

For years paladins were relegated to undead in terms of DPS and if you wanted to see any kind of speed in killing you focused your efforts to those types of camps. For very high return and very low aa expenditure you can focus on undead while you build your aa count when you get to the higher aa ranks you will start to see progress on live mobs.

With a bard in group (pre nerf) and hitting things as they pop instead of saving them from named, max aa, tanking with a 2her, and in high end raid gear I could sustain anywhere from 12-15k on live mobs over periods of time (15-30 min) and over 20k on undead (usually there were live mobs mixed in so I never got an accurate 100% sustained parse on undead).

If you find yourself lacking DPS make friends with a necro and have them use the scorched bones spell line and you may land a few slays during the time the debuff lands.

TL; DR yes you need a LOT of AA both spell and melee to do decent dps unless the mobs are undead, as we are not a dps oriented class.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:41 am

Thank you for the thorough explanation Shiftie =). My thing is I have no experience grouping or raiding with a high level Paladin ever since I got back. All I see are lots and lots of lvl 95 raid geared Sks with lots of AAs swarming crazily, aoe agroing, doing great dps, and tanking up a storm. For the entire month or so I have been back I am the highest level/aa paladin I know :P. So all my guidance has come from me looking through lucy, zam, this forum and really old forum post.

I hate all the things people still say about paladins :P which is making me level so fast and really push my character, So that I can tank higher content and show them what a paladin can do. I just wish there was a paladin handbook, for the 10 or so expansions I missed ;).
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby shiftie » Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:46 am

/join severwide.paladins:paladins

I'm sure there are plenty of people in that channel that will help you with your questions. Don't let the SK's swarming for high aa counts bother you. All three classes are powerful group tanks, when you figure out some things and up your aa count you'll be able to solo pretty well and in the raid game we cast a shadow so large on sk's they spend their raid existence in darkness.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Ughbash » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:57 am

Also Paladins can do some insane swarms also. Shifties Illsain video may no longer be viable due to greying out. But swarming is still netting some paladins between 30 and 50 aa on a lesson (maybe more).
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:26 pm

How do you put discs on a hotkey?
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby shiftie » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:02 pm

Line1=/disc pureforge discipline Rk. III
Line2=/alt activate 920; /pause 1
Line3=/disc Righteous Vexation rk. III
Line4=/pause 1
Line5=/alt activate 6492
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Kidas52 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:08 pm

oh that easy thanks shiftie =)
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby shiftie » Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:20 pm

Kidas52 wrote:oh that easy thanks shiftie =)


I linked you some stuff in the other thread.
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Re: Paladin DPS (when not tanking) yes we can!

Postby Beezy » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:28 pm

Oops, forgot I had posted this haha!
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