slay undead

[shiftie]

Elidroth Wrote:

"I'm actually going to approach code with a different solution.

What I want to do is basically take the current slay code, and rewrite it to be a passive 'always on' damage increase against Undead npcs. No 'procs', no chance to trigger, just a straight, across the board damage increase whenever fighting undead. You'll lose the huge 'eye candy' crit numbers, but that's about it, and then we can get on with increasing melee damage for Paladins."

located here
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=163397

[boukk]

[Luthair]

Moving from the current slay to an always-on boost is ideal if the implementation is good, it removes by far the biggest problem we have: the perception that slay is crazy DPS because others see 30k crits.

I would hold my opinion until I had more information about its implementation, are we talking an increased multiplier on undead, or are they going to give us a shitty +X damage per swing that doesn't scale at all? The later would be unacceptable in my book and I'd want an AA refund, otherwise it would come down to what sort of multiplier (and what kind of base dps increase.)

[shiftie]

[Ughbash]

May seem like a bad way of doing it, but what I would like to see them do is ADD X damage to each hit with slay. I would like them NOT to scale it with weapons (which gives a bigger edge to Raiders) but to give a flat +xxx damage per hit. Possibly modifying the +xxx based on the delay of the weapon to normalize it.

Ideally they parse slay with a Tower 2 weapon and find that if Slay adds 120,000 damage over 1 min and is you hit 60x that it adds a flat 2k per hit at that delay.

Then wiht next expansion they can raise slay to 2300 or 2500 or whatever would be needed to keep it up.

This method would take out ALL of the randomness, would not hurt your DPS (with the exception of Riposte swarming which some of you have pointed out that Ilsallin will likley go away next level increase anyways). It also gives the GROUP paladin some very nice stuff, WITHOUT hurting the raid paladin.

[vawen]

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

the method you are suggesting is far inferior to a shield specialist like formula bonus for slay and I'm sorry I would not support a 2nd spire, hstr vet wrath addition of slay damage. That offers 0 synergy from things like shaman epic, 7th year vet, glyphs, circle of power or our very own critical hit aa. I'm sorry but your suggestion is worse than a proc.

[Ughbash]

[shiftie]

[boukk]

[Ughbash]

[Thessiuss]

[shiftie]

baleted

[Arslayn]

The thing is no matter how much you may not like Ugh's idea Flat increases are all the devs want to give out, they will do everything they can to avoid anymore abilities that multiply damage. While I understand and see your point about looking at rogue, Zerker, Monks and Ranger discs also need to see that everything they have been giving those classes for last 2 expansions is either flat increases or nothing but fluff, even Wizards got a fat 0 increase this expansion after the debacle with twincast, and I would expect they will get another fat 0 with the next expansion. Ugh's idea will take it away from the realm of a proc and move it into the realm of always on as well a give the dev's a tool to allow for increases and add t your AA count which will also give it weight as an idea.

[boukk]

[boukk]

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts ... _id=163811
Elidroth says he s lobbying to not change slay now, apparently.
Well he actually said he wont change anything, which is kinda vague.
Either he realised slay isnt what it used to be, or he just cba and will leave us with crapy dps.

[penodor]

I want slay undead upgraded as much as the next paladin i am as sick of being a rubbish 3k dps class as well but there are things to remember about how paladins have developed recently before we put our complaining hats on specifically things like glorious vindication and protective confessions the burst line heal spells and aurora as well. We are not exactly hard done by as a class and certainly there are other classes more deserving of having work done on them than paladins. By all means continue to harass the miserable excuse for a dev team we have but also bear in mind what we have been given in recent expansions.

[conanan]

[riou]

[knytul]

beastlords maybe, but druids are doin much better

[boukk]

/rerail.

Any news about SU /live dps upgrade?

Last heard elidroth was saying he was militating to not change anything (no more details), then nothing for ages.

[shiftie]

Bounta wrote:

"So have you had your meeting? Do you guys know which route u want to take withi pally dps and slay undead now?"




Elidroth wrote:

"I do.. I'm lobbying to not change anything. Huzzah!"

I sent a PM to Eli asking him this:

"What is the status on this? Are we going to see a fix pre-release of HoT? I know myself and others were really hoping the fix would be incoming soon. Things have grown quiet lately. Can we be updated please."

He replied by saying
"I'm buried in work for the expansion.. really don't have much time to do anything else at the moment. I can't really say I'll have any time to do live updates other than bug fixes before beta. I MIGHT.. but I just don't know."

It sucks balls, but who is surprised really? I don't know why they said anything to us to begin with. If they had not said anything we would have just kept right on complaining in private circles hoping that one day they might get to fixing it. Instead they sparked a topic of debate, said they would fix it and then moved onto other classes.

Surprised no - disappointed extremely.

[knytul]

typical response: We are trying to push out more and more content to keep you guys entertained so we can make more money instead of taking a few weeks and fixing all of our previous screwups...

[penodor]

The big problem about slays is that its been on the cards for a downward nerf for some considerable time now the devs seem hellbent on ignoring all the parse info we have thrown at them to prove that slay undead doesnt break our dps and Overpower the class realistically the best we can hope for is that they dont nerf slays into oblivion and make them effectively worthless that they just leave them as they are.

[Vaindolf]

Lets face it, nothing going to happen. They simply wont have time.

[vawen]

[AbyssalMage]

[Normy]

If they make this an innate proc or just a straight melee passive increase and decide to NOT scale it to armor and weapons, I don't want them bitching when a 75 paladin is clearing Illsalin with a rusty dagger.

[shiftie]

/GU Combined: An Illsalin soldier in 139s, 3046k @21912dps --- Shiftee 3046k @21912dps

/tell Shiftee Shiftee -vs- Combined: An Illsalin soldier: -- DMG: 3045770 -- DPS: 21912 -- Scaled: 21912 -- Slay: 1443149 -- Slash: 1418036 -- Bash: 142708 -- DirDmg: 41705 -- Hit: 172 -- Non-crit rate: 81% -- crit rate: 15.4% -- crippling rate: 3.6% -- Attempts: 1478 -- Hits: 1065 -- Missed: 376 -- Defended: 37 -- Accuracy: 73.9% -- Avg Hit: 2859 -- Max hit: 45031 -- DMG to PC: 230419

[Ughbash]

Honeslty Shiftee I was more impressed with your 5 min parse at 17k dps.

Everyone knows a 2 min parse doesn't really show anything

[Normy]

Alright, we can wrap it up, Slay is overpowered and needs nurf la. A tank class that can mass heal a raid for 600,000 in a single cast and do 21k DPS against undead is out of scale and way too uber. To keep things even with the 2k DPS rogues, our DPS really should be at least cut in half, maybe just remove SU altogether too.

/grabs a pitchfork and torches
NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF NERF

[boukk]

That s posting that kind of parse without specifying that s riposting 50+ mob that makes people think slay is OP'ed.

So keep em coming .

[Normy]

Bah, you aren't in the right angry-mob mindset. Circumstances don't matter! Zone doesn't matter! Mob levels don't matter! Facts don't matter!

Now repeat that mantra a few hundred times and come back ready to nerf anything that looks at you cross-eyed!


I had some amazing parse once, not 21k high, but it was like 10k for about 20 minutes flat-out. During a bonus xp weekend about 6 months ago or so, a group of friends wanted to try the FC raid zone, specifically the aug event that spawns limitless zombie type mobs. I found a fantastic location to shove myself into a corner and manage to snag all the mobs as they came for us. It was a couple hundred mobs by the time we were done there.

It was good xp, but if anything went wrong at all we were toast, lol. I had a bot cleric spam healing me, and I was helping heal as I could with burst and going through nearly all of my defensive options and refreshing as I went. Still, the parse was amazing. But I lost that hard drive about a month later so I don't have it anymore .

The funny part was I was still outparsed by the ranger in my group.

[shiftie]

you guys are way too angry lol

I post parses all the time both relevant mobs @ 4k dps and swarming old zones... if people really want to get mad over a parse and start trying to nerf us because I pulled a train of 70 or more mobs in a zone that was released in 2005 and hit my 7th year vet award because I was that bored powerleveling a wizard from 1-73 in 4 hours. Then let them get mad. I should be able to post parses about slay swarms and get a chuckle out of you guys. It has gotten to the point where I see how MANY mobs I can put into that train, how FAST I can kill them and what is the highest dps I can achieve because of it. I don't have much else to do outside of raids but to try and get a good laugh out of that.

anyhow

[boukk]

[Turayalon]

zzzz

[shiftie]

I know you guys got all sandy over the last one but this is too epic not to post for the lulz

/GU Combined: Bishop Yurim in 124s, 3779k @30472dps --- Shiftee 3779k @30971dps

Shiftee -vs- Combined: Bishop Yurim: -- DMG: 3778509 -- DPS: 30971 -- Scaled: 30472 -- Slash: 1802138 -- Slay: 1703935 -- Bash: 160574 -- DirDmg: 111610 -- Hit: 252 -- Non-crit rate: 79.9% -- crit rate: 16.4% -- crippling rate: 3.6% -- Attempts: 1873 -- Hits: 1321 -- Missed: 500 -- Defended: 52 -- Accuracy: 72.5% -- Avg Hit: 2860 -- Max hit: 45031 -- DMG to PC: 211051

[Vaindolf]

LoL cool, first i thought WTF a singel named with that dps! So you pulled a huge train and "WSed" it with 7th etc to pull those numbers? =)

[Abazzagorath]