Hostility toward Dev's

[knytul]

Guys, i know we as a class have been burned hardcore by developers in the past. Seriously though, we have a new batch of devs now, and 1 of them is ACTUALLY going out of their way to work with us and try to get us going in the right directions again. As paladins we are probably the most Versatile class in ALL of EQ. We can tank, we can heal, we can afk dpm (pun intended), we can cure, cc, u name it in some way we can probably do it. This means that we all play the class differently. So no decision on a dev's part is EVER gonna make everybody happy. The paladin class is like american government. Conservatives and Liberals, and they break down even more. Some like change, some dont. Anyway:

We have 1 here who is going out of their way ALOT (esp w/ beta and Underfoot coming up) to try to work with us on 1 particular issue, DPS. So far 2 things have come up.
1) How Slay Undead currently works
2) His goal on where he would like us to end up both Live and Undead dps

In no way has he said anything about Nerfing, or anything negative for that matter. His current goal is to boost our live dps from Point A (low man on totem pole) to just below Warriors. And for undead dps to have us surpass ALL (yes rogues and zerkers too) melee classes. So much crap is flying out like "whatever devs our opinions dont matter do what you want", or "just nerf us out already" or "you dont listen to the playerbase anyway"...Quit the crap seriously folks. This all is gonna do nothing BUT make Elidroth say "screw it, let them sit on crappy dps for another year". Let the man Scout out the info and break it down piece by piece and learn what is going on before you think about chastizing him. Hes picking up where someone else left off. Iirc it was Nodyin who not even 6 months ago was saying he was gonna look into our dps issue, then left us for another MMO. Elid is picking up where he left off. Give the guy a minute to do work. Hes even coming in here and telling us what hes finding. We all should be grateful as holy hell for this as no other dev has done that. Did anybody else know that Slay is currently "Or more accurately, 5.15% chance to do Base Damage*23. The scaling is insane."? I didnt. Im sure nobody else in here did either.

Slow yer roles a lil bit and let the man do work. Now that he has analyzed the current code of Slay Undead, Let him look at some possible changes to it. Maybe he can even post them in here before deciding to make them official, "Letting us be the Q&A of Slay Undead".

[Thebobo]

There is no problem here other then you making one up to establish some sort of moral high ground.

[knytul]

[Cellan]

Oh I see you're talking to me Knytul. Thank you very much. I guess pointing out on a feedback thread how a decision is in the works in spite of alot of opinions stated was wrong. My bad, I guess that would make no sense.

I see your point clearly and if you want to call people out then learn to accept people being called out.

Splitting Slay from normal DPS so normal DPS can be boosted as he said sounds like stagnating SU even further.... so yeah I would call that a nerf based on that statement alone PRIOR to hearing his feedback on where he wants us to be in the DPS tree. Mind you, HIS opinion was there on where we should be but anyone believing we will end up above ALL melee classes is setting himself up for disappointment. One dev doesn't make that decision alone and he already pointed that out.

As for what Abaz calling out the dev teams, I personally feel it's needed. So devs read into coding about a 51.5% chance of x23dmg. We ALL here know that is NOT happening so saying they don't know what they are looking or don't understand it sounds like a reasonable statement to me.

but whatever ....... we should just be supportive of anything a dev says in a feedback thread because that's what feedback really is........ ok

[knytul]

actually im referring to quite a few people. If you compare just the responses this 1 dev has given us, compared to ANY other developer, hell the rest combined...He deserves alot better than he has gotten from the community. Not once yet has he said what action he was going to take, yet most pallies here are going head over heels at conclusions that havent even been made yet, assuming only the worst is yet to come.

As abazz was pointing out the Data is wrong. Thats a good way to go about it. Abazz is doing his homework, and attacking the data there. But some pallies are attacking the Developer, and that will get us nowhere.

Now me personally, im not saying i believe everything Elidroth is pitching, and ive said that a few times, but what i am saying is people need to chill out and see WHAT is proposed by Elidroth, before getting into hysterics. Itd be like flippin out because theres a .01% chance Sarah Palin might be president in 2012...

in reference to your last statement, what i would recommend in being supportive to dev feedback is sorta similar to what abazz was doing. Go after the data sure, but do it with Tact. If Elidroth is wrong about some form of Data, find the correct data and inform him on it. But attacking Elidroth and saying "your wrong, your a terd, just nerf us out of submission already" type mentalities wont get us anywhere. If this dont make sense by all means say so.....

[Huurgh]

[boukk]

[knytul]

ya, on live and undead we really arent beating anybody

[Brohg]

Careful with crossing definitions. From a developer's perspective, there's probably a divide between fully passive melee dps, which is based purely on calculations of accuracy, attack, melee skills, weapon ratios, AAs, etc, and active dps based on abilities and context like group format, etc. It's obvious to everyone that paladins have very little in the way of active dps to add on to the passive, but based just on the passive, Slay probably puts paladins way out in front of the melee pack on undead.

[AbyssalMage]

[knytul]

oh but they do. Slay Undead is a very powerful PASSIVE dps ability, thus why it stagnates our melee dps. Only 2 things that come to mind that affect it, is champion and Intensity....(there might be 1 or 2 more, but they are irrelevant to the point). Anyhoo, im still curious to what Elidroth comes up with as a proposal to alter slay. Given his current example as a thought: (if slay is currently 30k, 1 hit @ 1 min to 10k, 3 hit @ 1 min). iuno, that honestly seems to be the same damage, but DPS increases because what if a mob dies in 5 min, 30 seconds. First example is 5 slays only, 150k damage. Second would be 160k damage (maybe 170k) with 13 slays. Whatever his changes are, they will need #'s crunched, if its in beta let us do parsings and post in Parsed Data. etc. We already have current info on Slay Undead, im sure we can get together and calculate up what the new proposals would be.

[Tuathadendannan]

I was running though the arena last night and found an all Pally rock band performing they were called "Patallica" and guess what they were singing a great song I think aimed at the dev's and lamenting at how the dev's once again know nothing about the pally class and thinking omg what are we gonna do... or I know lets just nerf them jerkwads, even though on undeads raid mobs they barely hit the top 10 in raid parse.

"I've been to Firona, I've been to commons. I've been to freeport too...... so what! So what! so what, you boring little F****

give us a break for once and let things ride and if it does get out of hand then think about different recources. Its not broke as it stands now, were not gonna get some ungodly mindboggling leg up other tank classes.
there is a hell of alot more they should be doing to fix their screwups on this game than pallys..... like them driving the cleric class away with the institution of merc's.




"

[Joejo]

[Joejo]

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