Why are so many Paladins screaming for more DPS

[Valandil]

[knytul]

um, yeah i can since SINGLE TARGET means the person you are targeting is the person who is gonna get healed. Thats the definition of Single target. Now if i was referring to overall healing in general, yes id include Aurora. But not in this circumstance.

[Normy]

I don't agree with you. Kyntul put it about as well as it can be. Aurora should not be ignored, its a powerful spell in our healing arsenal. When talking about total capacity to heal, we can't forget that spell.

However when talking about targetted heals, its simply not that. At all. Thats the same as calling a mana regen aura a single target buff, as long as there is only one class in the group with mana. Its still not a single target buff, because it cannot be targetted. It has a mind of its own. You can use distance and a few other tricks to make it hit only one person, true (although in the case of auras there is no point), but an enchanter cannot throw their fantastic mana regen aura on a tank group so their clerics get the benefits, they have to be in group and enjoy the benefits.

Now, it is true that in most group situations, aurora can be essentially tricked into acting like a single target heal. But stretching it to fit the description of a single-target heal and then declaring it needs to be balanced along with those other spells is a mistake. AoD is its own very unique class of spell, that is not like anything else we have really. Its not a group heal because it doesn't always heal the whole group for a set amount. its not a single-target heal because it cannot be targetted. Its not a self-only heal because it does not work solo.

So when i'm sitting back and noticing that my 1.0 second heal line doesn't scratch a warriors HP even on a crit, I don't want people to sit there and tell me "well, why didn't you just use AoD since thats your best single-target heal?" because it would be a lie. I can think of a dozen reasons why I might use a single-target heal over AoD. The first few are easily the most obvious: 1) I'm not in the same group. Even if I am in a tank group on a raid, most raids have several tank groups. 2) Maybe it was more important to keep that one person alive than it was to keep the rest of the group alive. Sometimes sacrafices have to be made, and if I have 1 chanter on the raid keeping a major mob locked and then 3 other DPS in my group, sometimes it makes more sense in a hurry to try to save the one person that is required. 3) I can't afford to be casting for several seconds. Some of my tasks require me to be moving most of the time, pausing to throw out a .3 or a 1.0 second heal might be possible, not always with a longer cast time. 4) I might not be on top of the group members that need a heal. The short range of AoD sometimes requires me to try something else, like target heals. 5-12) more situational stuff, but you get the idea.

[Zanador]

You forgot one normy. What about you do have tank in group but other people getting chewed up by aoe's, aoe ramp etc the effectiveness of aurora for healing that war just when down the crapper and devout touch or burst just became a better choice (I'm sorry but I'd never use light it's just to 1-900-MixALot weak I can at least get a 12-15kish crit on devout.)

[Normy]

Aye, that too. Although I've never seen that high of a crit on the devout line, that situation has happened before as well. Aurora is awesome, but its fantastic uses in the right situations should not prevent us from getting a viable single-target heal is all I'm really trying to say, so misclasifying AoD as another spell type is going to be a mistake.

[Zanador]

Imo they need to significantly like by a couple k boost touch and burst lines and just throw out light. Burst if you need a decent heal NOW touch for a bigger heal but takes a couple seconds to cast. Light kinda got kicked to the curb when burst came out.

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[Zanador]

Boost them to I don't care it's not like shaman's and druids don't owe us a couple after the 90pct rez and group heals anyway.

[ZsaZsa Vavoom]

It seems that increasingly around here people have started viewing these boards as yet another sandbox on the Internet playground where it is appropriate to call names, attack people, and otherwise try to demonstrate how little you "fail", or whatever the cool lingo is for today. This is not the case. Part of what makes these forums so cool (and useful) is the lack of such noise. I just spent a bunch of time, on my birthday no less , cleaning up a bunch of inappropriate stuff in this thread. I was on vacation and didn't catch it all until this point in the thread, so consider it a friendly reminder. Re-read what you are posting; if your words have more to do with another poster than EQ or the topic of the thread, you've probably gone astray.

We do very little active moderation of these boards, largely because the community enables that approach. Please don't bring us to where this needs to be a job, constantly warning, suspending, banning, editing, etc. etc.

[Wyvernwill]

[Brohg]

Happy Birthday, ZsaZsa! Made my own post red so you can't do it na na na na!

[Arslayn]

Shaman and Druids dont owe the Paladin class anything for the 90% rez period it has enough restrictions to pretty much make it eh at best in todays game. The Group game its near useless as they cant cast it in combat so they are gonna use their call if its bad enough to need the person Now and then the Merc is gonna cast a 96% rez soon as combat is over anyway. Even if there isnt an active merc my experience has been that someone will have one in a pocket and dig it out for the rez. As for the Group heals theirs were pitiful to begin with so as non hybrid healers they got a deserving boost, as their classes heals were very far behind for far longer than the paladin classes has been, since the HoT line was added to Pallies until now it wasnt behind, the same can be said for out group heals, our single target heals have always been meh imo until the introduction of Burst but it has a bad enough drawback with its excruciating lockout. I dont disagree that the paladin heal lines all need a bit of a tweak though, its sadly a fact of life the spell dev seems to appear "lazy" in regards to how spells get their adjustments expansion to expansion with the plug it into a spread sheet and give it X% a boost yay my job is done gimme my check mentality(and yes Im probably being overly harsh). As to a number on the boosts Im not sure I could say maybe 1k-1.5k would be a good boost maybe they would need more than that, sadly they are off only due to the poor itemization of EQ we have seen such mudflation the last 2 expansions in HP, and in the DPS of the mobs to offset the candy store gear.

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

I've never argued that other priest classes should not get a boost, and to only boost paladins. I would be perfectly fine if they up druid and shammy heals in the same vein, I'm just pointing out that our single target heals need work, as do our group heals.

I don't want to take away the job of a shammy or druid or cleric. But I want my spells to actually be effective. We have a few lines that just need an update to include the massive HP gains over the last 4 expansions.

[Abazzagorath]

Touch should be ~4000-4200 base. Burst is fine.

[Arslayn]

Im sorry Normy the first part of my post wasnt aimed at you was more a response to Zanador, where as the 2nd part was more my take on the heals and how I feel about them getting boosted

[Wyvernwill]

[Normy]

No worries, I don't take any of this personally, plus I kinda agree with you. Druids and shammies don't owe us anything over that gimpy 90 rez they got. If anything their rez needs to be changed so they can use it in combat OR they need an immediate way to drop out of combat. But thats a totally different conversation.

[Aanalin]

I am still waiting for our AE stun.. even as low agro it can generate

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[shiftie]

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[shiftie]

Generating 0 aggro during raid combat to avoid pulling mass group heal aggro = ok

sitting on your horse healing a group dropping 16k heals back to back to back all the while staying ooc = exploiting the 0 aggro component of the spell.

[Normy]

And with each post I feel the nerf bat getting closer.

[shiftie]

[knytul]

why are we even talking about healing when the title of the thread clearly states: Why are so many Paladins screaming for more DPS?

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[shiftie]

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[Zanador]

I can't believe I'm agreeing with shift but what you are doing is the freaking definition of an exploit. It's not intended to be used to perma super mega heal your tank with you sitting in ooc the whole freaking time and never going oom. And really aurora needs left out of tweaking the heals shift is right it's balanced, devout, burst and waves aren't. And some of us need to be able to heal people not in group. What's aurora going to do in that situation? That's right nothing:P

[shiftie]

[Brohg]

Not much of an exploit, honestly. If you're going to sit and heal all day, but not contribute anything else (since you'd get a combat timer), you're a failure as a player healer. That applies to regular priests, too. The quality of a healer is measured by two things: how they react in a crisis, and how much besides healing they contribute when there isn't a crisis. Healing and nothing else is what mercenaries do, and they never afk or bitch about shadowknights, so they win.

[shiftie]

[Normy]

[Aanalin]

[Wyvernwill]

Write something about the topic instead of about another poster. - Thx, Teh Management

[Normy]

So lets compare all situations to the horribly broken PVP in EQ? That is the most illogical commentary in this thread. Of course you would go for the healers and support crew, so would every mob in the game if they had intelligence. They don't, they have a system of rules that are different from intelligence. Warriors would be entirely useless otherwise, hell all tank classes would be.

And yes, having agro on this spell would change the use of this spell completely. No, it wouldn't change how much it heals for, or the range, or most of the other raw stats of the spell, but the use would be forever changed. Imagine taking agro OFF some cleric heal. No matter what, that would completely change the way that spell is used, even if everything else about the spell remains the same.

[Silverboltt]

This entire thread makes me sad about playing a paladin. Anyone have some good news for us paladins?

[knytul]

We can save alot of plat on our Holy Steed insurance by switching to Geiko