Just a thought

[Rameldor]

I've been leveling a sk lately and am having lot of fun so far. I just wanted to put a couple things out there see if anyone else feels the same.
I was thinking it would be nice to have a self buff that heals instead of does damage. It would allow us to take advantage of the AAs we have similar to the sk but we wouldnt get the huge heals from DD crits.
And the other was our charge of honor spell line has a mitigation component and the sks get an ac boost. I noticed our spell drops quickly and on the sk the ac boost stays the whole minute or whatever it is.
So I am constantly casting our version to maintain the mitigation when sks cast it once a minute or so.

Dunno if anyone feels the same or what the sks might say but just a thought.

[shiftie]

we currently already have two forms of passive heal procs.

blessing of life - random innate heal proc
healing light - procs off of any stun cast (including some procs)

While these two AA are not as powerful as Totc they still add quite a bit of mitigation.

As for a buff with a heal proc... WRU you Ward/Sustenance/Preservation of Tunare?

Do you really play a paladin?

I will however agree about the shielding/vs ac boost from Charge - with the addition of Withstand, that spell seems to have less use to me except for aggro purposes.

anyhow,
shiftie

[boukk]

[Normy]

Yea, I got to play a reasonably powerful SK of a friend of mine (well AA'ed and geared to my level, some MMM gear and lower tier SoD raid gear). ToTC is far more of a cheat than ward ever was, since it continues to work at full power against single mobs and doesn't cost the SK anything. Its the "Knight's Holy Unfair Bullshit Blade" that was commented on in another thread by Brohg. AA cost, but other than that its a completely free increase to autoattack DPS and it heals the SK for some substantial amounts.

Our Preservation of Tunare, Blessing of Life, and Healing light all combined do not stack up to ToTC alone in terms of survivability in any standard group content. Of course a good SK will be usings their Decrepit Skin line, their castable taps, and their challenge line as well as ToTC, furthering the divide a bit more, and they are doing about 50% more DPS while doing it than I could.

And before I get blasted for all this, I can tank any group content I've found in the game so far, even under merc power for most of it. I don't suffer from lack of groups, I just wish there were some actual advantage to having a paladin in a group. Sk's have the DPS advantage, we should be easier to keep alive then. As a paladin, I have to choose between these three options: keeping excellent agro and losing DPS and self healing, doing my best (but still crappy) DPS and keeping lowered agro and still lose self healing, or doing alot of self-healing but losing DPS and greatly reduced agro. Normally the first option is the one I need to go with. Sk's can and will do all three of excellent agro, respectable DPS, and excellent self-healing.

And no, I don't want to see anything the Sk's can do be nerfed. I just want a few of our abilities to be brought up in-line with theirs. We did pretty good with this last expansion, just hoping we get a few more things to swing our way on this next one.

[Sylvia Sunhair]

[Normy]

When i see SK's effectively out-tanking warriors on raid targets, I'll cry nerf. For the time being, warriors are still the kings of tanking, and a good warrior can out-DPS a knight. Now in reference to group gear, if you are referring to SoD group gear, then yes a knight will likely outtank a warrior on group content. This comes down to the AC being absolute crap on the group gear, but knights have more ways to mitigate for not having the AC. Warriors are much more gear dependent and lots still go the mostly HP route.

Therefore they are taking greater hits than a knight unless they are under defensive disc in group gear. Paladins and SK's have ways of self healing that makes us appear to be taking less hits, plus we are much more likely to be using a shield than a warrior while tanking.

Getting into fight where the minimum damage of a mob is so great, like raid targets, and that is where warriors with their discs and natural mitigation will typically shine. I'm not complaining about our ability to tank, I'm complaining that in order to do it we give up our already dismal DPS and have to sacrafice some of our self-healing ability. Or we can keep some of our self-healing, but have to sacrafice some of our agro-generation.

A paladin can tank, nearly anything in the group game at the moment, but for other tanks there is distinct advantages to having them. Warriors are typically very stable tanks, can AE taunt if things go bad, keep very consistant agro, and put out a respectable amount of DPS; all at the same time. Sk's are good tanks, can AE agro if things go bad, have good single target agro, help to keep themselves alive effectively, can pull in a pinch, and put out a little less DPS than a warrior on average; all at the same time. Paladins are good tanks, can single target agro extremely well, can group heal, we can put out a little less DPS than a warrior on average against undead mobs only, and can help keep themselves alive effectively; here is where we lose though, we can only do 1-2 of those at a time. Self heals cost us our DPS and agro management. DPS costs us our self healing and agro. Agro costs us our self healing and DPS. Our group heals are good, but most have noticed that they have not scaled well with the gear that is commonly available, so their usefulness has waned a bit.

This all goes back to the ongoing debate of class balance. I'm not interested in nerfs, nerfing the SK won't change the fact that I'm limited to only being able to do what I can now. All it will do is piss off the SK's and still do nothing for us. Maybe just up Blessing of Life by a bit of ranks, make it compareable to the hefty heals from ToTC, but make it cost at least the same as what the SK's had to spend on it.

[Sylvia Sunhair]

If you up one class and stagnate another then its nerf by ommision, since wars are the most inferior tank in the group game atm you would have to increse them with the paladins while stagnating the SKs then you are nerfing the SKs by not upgrading them no matter what you call it.
Btw paladins can tank anything in the group game today not just nearly anything.
I havent seen those godly SK tanks my self but then i havent grouped with a sk for a long time.

About challenge of honor i think it should stay on for the duration have a hp limit is idiocy if i had to hold it up i wouldnt be able to do anything but chain casting it.

[Rameldor]

Sorry I should of been more clear. I meant the longer lasting Righteous Fury line.
At level 80 the damage that spell does is fairly minor, similar to our 1st dd spell at lvl 51 that did what 125 points of damage and had a recast, what a joke.
Playing the sk and then going back to the paladin has made playing the pally feel like work.
Maybe I am having a case of the grass is greener but the sk is more fun at the moment.

And I don't take all this stuff as serious as some folks so don't bother with the slams.
I've played a paladin since a week or 2 after launch and am only coming from the angle of having fun.
That is why we play ya?

[Normy]

[Cellan]

[karkariace]

[knytul]

thats more of a matter of perspective, not balance OR nerf persay.