Slay Undead Poll: Dev requested feedback

[boukk]

[Dwanor]

It does get a bit discouraging when other classes are killing mobs solo/molo/duo while we sit and wait.

Watched a ranger today molo a mob in Fungal. I tried the same thing. I had no problem living more than twice as long as the ranger had to and never got the rhino bug lower than 49% before I died.

Now I may have tanked better than the ranger, maybe even twice as well but he got the mob dead and I couldn't.

This is a molo example but it fits with any other group situation as well. Paladin Shaman.. slow to kill IF you can live long enough. With dps spikes in UF thats a bit if because the number of spikes increases the longer mobs are alive.

Its not really about balancing abilities anymore. Its about viability. This game is about actually killing mobs not just being better at taking damage so you can last longer before the mob kills you.

[Zanador]

uh you do realize most mobs stunnable right? just don't pick fights with yellow cons and you can molo even in husk.

[Kadiin]

First time poster here, but I've been watching this thread off and on over the past year with great interest. I have played the Paladin class since beta, and it's astounding to me that the general DPS issue the class faces has been ignored and brushed off time and again. This thread is proof of that - here we are, at the one year anniversary of this post, and what has been resolved? Nothing! From what I can tell, the devs have yet to give any indication of what they're truly thinking of doing about the issue, if anything at all. It's hard not to say that the anger and exasperation felt by every Paladin on these and other boards isn't completely justified.

However, rather than beat a dead Holy Steed, I thought I'd be constructive by posting a suggestion on what I feel could be done to alleviate some of the problem. Something tells me the devs aren't likely open to such things at this time, but nothing ventured and nothing gained right? Plus, considering at this point that the chances of anything being fixed soon is in the realm of "Fairy Tale Land", perhaps you will indulge me on this? First things first, a disclaimer:

All examples given in this post is for ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES ONLY! Don't get your panties in a twist because the numbers are 'way too low/high' or some such. Feel free to make a counterpoint if you feel something is off - at the end of the day, all spell/ability balance is up to the development team.

Now then, with that out of the way, on to the matters at hand: it has been stated multiple times that the devs do not want to make any fixes that would affect Slay Undead - basically, anything that would affect our base melee DPS. Regardless of whether they have changed their minds on this, my proposed changes will not change base melee DPS. Instead, we'll go the spell DPS route. Several new spells will need to be created, and some of the existing spells paladins have will need to be updated. The proposal comes in three parts:

1. Update the self-buffed innate proc spell line with a more suitable resist adjustment, and make the first spell available starting at around level 30. Every single rank that currently exists has Resist Adjust: Magic (0) on it, which means it gets resisted a LOT. There's no justification for this, considering that Shadow Knights and even Rangers get self buff procs that start at -100 or -200 right out of the gate! I won't ask for exact parity between the abilities, but anything less than -150 magic adjust is hardly much to ask for at this stage in the game. Furthermore, this will be very important in order for proposal #3 to work.

2. Extend the Vindication spell series down into the low/mid 30's as well, with new ranks coming at around the same intervals as the self proc changes. Using a 31/41/51 progression might be good, there aren't many (or any!) spells at those levels. Change the recast timer to 12 seconds, to more closely match proc rates on self buffs - reducing the damage done or mana efficiency to compensate is acceptable, as this will be important for a more even DPS increase.

3. Add a Recourse effect to the self-buffed procs. Every time you get a proc, the Recourse effect will add a 2 tick short buff that increases damage done by Vindication/Undead nukes by X amount, based upon the spell level/rank. Add updated spells at around 40 and 50, which will allow a relatively even upgrade path through PoP/OoW/SoF. Allowing critical procs a higher base multiplier would be great, and if it's possible, perhaps extra procs could 'stack' on top of the initial multiplier at a much diminished bonus for those times when you get 2-3 procs in the time you're waiting for Vindication to refresh. Extra procs will also refresh the recourse timer.

There are a few minor details to address here. First, I would suggest that the Level 45 spell Divine Might be the first rank at level 30 - remove it as the reward for the quest 'The Bones of Darak Lightforge' and make a vendor purchaseable version. Second, you could then update said quest as the new level 50 rank.. while we're on the subject, do some serious cleaning on that quest and make it less of a pain (I'm looking at you, Phinny). Last is the new spell description on these spells: "Bestows divine might upon you, providing a chance to channel the will of the gods through your weapon when attacking. In addition, any time you strike an enemy with this ability you are granted Divine Vengeance for a short time, increasing damage done by your direct damage abilities."

With all that out of the way, here's an example of how this will work: As a level 31 paladin you have Divine Might cast on yourself and have the brand new spell,
Divine Vindication. Divine Vindication costs 98 mana for 195 damage done, with cast/recast speeds of 0.5s and 12s respectively. After entering combat with Random Mob] you get your first proc from Divine Might for 65 damage, triggering the Divine Vengeance recourse effect - this will increase damage done by Divine Vindication by 195 damage using the formula (Divine Might dmg * 3). Thus, total damage done by Divine Vindication if you cast within the 2 tick Recourse period is 390.

This may not seem like a lot, but at level 31 that's not too shabby, and you will likely be able to use Vindication 5 times in a minute at the same damage with no problems. As your proc spell level goes up, so does the recourse damage modifier. Now, let's take this a step further with an example of higher level benefits. At level 80, Righteous Fury Rk. II could have (Fury dmg * 4.1) = 1250 extra recourse damage. Add that to Righteous Vindication Rk. II (1259 damage for 608 mana) for a fast casting 2509 damage nuke every 12 seconds!

Finally, extra procs and crits on procs - this will reward players who have devoted AA's to the spell crit and proc rate abilities. Using the last example, if you have a 4.1 recourse damage modifier on Righteous Fury Rk. II as a base, every extra proc you gain before Vindication is ready could add another 0.2 damage multiplier to that. Critical procs should gain 50% on top of that as base - if your first proc is a crit, you reach 6.15 recourse damage modifier. Otherwise, it gains double stacking bonus (0.4) to what you already have. Finally, cap the recourse damage bonus off at around an 8x recourse modifier to keep people from continously refreshing the buff until they can insta-kill mobs with 1000x recourse buffs. As much fun as that would be to try, it's got to stop someplace, and I'm certain somebody would find a way to make it work if it was allowed to run wild on damage modifiers like that.

Again, these are only examples of what these abilities could look like, but I'm sure you'll agree that's a lot better than what Paladins currently have! I'm hoping somebody will like this, but feel free to post something even if you don't. And please be constructive with your criticism! It's fine if you outright hate it, but at least specify why/how!

[Zann]

Why not change Slay Undead to a passive ability to a triggered one?

If we had a hotkey button which we could click similar to Kick/Backstab/Frenzy which did a backstab level amount of damage to an undead mob, then our general melee DPS could be adjusted quite easily without effecting the lay undead button?

[Vaindolf]

Really needed? The undead dps isnt very high anyway atm, even tho we should be up the top undead slaying class. And my 4 hotbutton windows are full with buttons already. I dont want anymore unless they can add 5th or 6th window you can add to your UI

[Zanador]

For the love of god lock this thread so people quit bringing up suggestions they think are new that have been suggested multiple times in the last year.

[Cellan]

[shiftie]

zanador thinks this is EGN lol

but I agree ... reading would go a long way to stop these people from suggesting things that were said on page 3.

[Kadiin]

[conanan]

Well. another month has gone by . And still we wait.

[Orthanos]

I think I have the perfect idea for this debate that has been going on for......5 years or however long it has been since PoP came out regarding slays. Lets make something in /marketplace that will allow those pallies that are fed up with all of this to re-role their toon that they have played for so many years into another tank class (i.e. warrior/sk) I know I for one would do it in a skinny minute! FLAME AWAY!

[Ughbash]

[Orthanos]

I dont see where it would be that difficult. I mean they have the premise alre4ady for changing race and religion set up through marketplace.....even gender i think. If they could do that they should surely be able to make it so you could reroll your class. Although swapping out the AA and spells might be a little difficult but hey you can do ANYTHING with computers!

[Dole]

[varutia]

[Peaky]

I can't find the third of never on my calendar, I guess I should stop buying the Far Side daily desk version.

[Zanador]

For the love of god lock this thread.

[shiftie]

I recommend everyone active on these boards go to eqlive forums and PM elidroth and the other devs until the situation is resolved. Otherwise it looks like they are just going to stonewall us.

Recent posts on that forum show that whining indeed works. I don't recommend whining but bombard him with questions that need answers as well as solutions.

I'm reminded of Andy Dufrain.

[Goriel]

[Via]

How does one offer feed back or informed decisions based on incomplete information or supposition and that is all that I see offered and replied to currently?

[Hulkling]

[Dole]

Wow, nice news...

Thanks Hulkling

[Brohg]

To me that screams "hello innate proc, buhbye ripo slays"

[balladish]

If it means we can move on as a class and finally get the upgrades we need, I'm all for it.

[Brohg]

[Imrahil]

Sorry for not holding my breath.