Lack of Undead

[Turayalon]

So I was just wondering if the rest of you Paladins out there noticed much less undead in this expansion ?
Sure there are a couple in each zone but where is atleast a zone like FC or somewhere a paladin can have some fun ?
Were always held back each expansion because we have Slay Undead all I am asking is why are we when there are no or very few undead in SoD ?

[Brohg]

Some mobs in every zone + half of Field of Scale is undead. Slay Undead can't work full time, that'd be called a "balance issue".

[Turayalon]

Ya FoS, OGH and OGV all have a few but all I am saying is it would of been nice to have a zone like FC or illsalin where majority was undead like in the past.
That would not be a balance issue especially with the very few atm.

[Brohg]

I don't think you're following. The better Slay is, the less Paladins can get of other good things. Other good things like DA AA and Crush hatenukes, but also like real dps or tanking ability. If Slay Undead ever one day went away, it'd probably be the best day for the class as a whole since... well, since paladins GOT slay.

[Normy]

The devs at one point or another pretty much called major undead zones a mistake, since this allowed paladins to solo more effectively than intended. So rather than nerf long-since established zones, they did what they usually do, stagnate it.

I don't agree that making slay go away will ever change anything for us as a class. It just gives the devs something to blame for not giving us other upgrades, but even if slay were to go away suddenly, they would not rush to give us decent DPS against everything else. It just won't happen, they don't want a tank that can do real damage and also heal. I agree with one of the devs whom was quoted, but I cannot find it. Basically he stated that paladins were damn lucky to have slay in its current form.

So we have a small amount of mobs that we can do real damage on still, but they have learned to mix it in with live mobs to keep us from being killing machines. Even if/when they nerf slay, this won't change, and I'd bet my ass that when that day comes they won't be bringing about other changes to make us a powerhouse in any other area.

[Bruennor]

I personally don't see them screwing paladins on undead in every expansion. But yeah, having an undead heavy zone every expansion is a bit much. Technically, HoS can be considered the paladin place this expansion, since a lot of paladins will be able to hang there solo with mercs and/or higher lv's. And besides, FC should still be good enough for paladins, at least till max lv, and with mercs, maybe even then since it will be possible to hang just about anywhere in zone.

[Brohg]

HoS is higher reward platwise than Frostcrypt in my experience, plus you can make two good ac/hp augs.

[Zann]

Which good AC/HP augs drop in HoS. I could find mention of a 15AC + stats aug?

[Brohg]

Not drop, quest. Blessed Celestine and Cursed Obsidian Faycites. 18/72 and 20/72, with hero stats each, respectively.

Reversed by request!

[Opfor]

[Kashta]

[Brohg]

Slay Undead, with narrow application but an abundance of power, makes quite an obstacle to additional abilities or increases in power of wider application. Just ask raiding monks how they feel about Feign Death vis-a-vis power balance among dps melee classes.

[boukk]

Couldnt find any Xp farming undead spot in sod either, it s really disapointing considering it s the only kind of mob we can solo for xp efficiently.

Well atleast DW is still light blue and okish xp, so is FC and HoS.

[Hulkling]

Been thinking about trying to solo xp in Frost Crypt. I'm basically Soltiers geared (some slots worse, some better). Has anyone been successful in FC, compared to DW and RoI?

[Bruennor]

You should have no problems far as I can tell. I was nowhere near as geared as solteris knights and I could take 2 giants at a time, just by keeping one perma rooted. My only problem was I could not really plow anywhere. Course, I was only using epic 2.0, so....

[boukk]

[Hulkling]

ahh good to know, saves me a run to FC

how about Bloodmoon Keep now that we're higher level? Might be a good spot at 90 when Direwind and RoI dries up, plus being a "dungeon" it should have a higher ZEM.

[Normy]

I tried bloonmoon twice. First without a merc, then with a merc.

Without a merc, I couldn't handle the multiple mobs. Two mobs were hard to keep up with, although I did it. Took most of my mana bar. But once past the first few pulls, getting three+ was more common. Root helped when it stuck, but three killed me.

With a merc it was easier with two, much easier. Just as hard with three because the merc kept getting agro until she finally died. I survived it, but decided to leave.

But then, I'm not really top-end geared. I've heard crazy numbers thrown at me for what some paladins are able to DPS against undead for, much higher than I can push. That would probably make a pretty big difference.

[Grungloe]

[AbyssalMage]

[Normy]

What you are digging into with all that is class balance. Debates like this rage forever.

I will give my humble opinion. With this expansion, I'm happy with where we are at the moment. No, we cannot AE agro, this has been called class-defining by the devs for SK's, so we are unlikely to get it any time soon. True, our DPS is lower than SK's on live content, which is most content.

Paladins are bastards of clerics and warriors. SK's are bastards of necro/warrior. Given that, they SHOULD be more DPS since nearly all their inherited spells are from a DPS class. Only recently have they been given a dot worth a damn at all. They have other cool abilities now as well, but I wouldn't want that DPS in exchange for our ability to heal.

I think we are more hindered by people coming out of the woodworks claiming fantastic numbers that happens whenever paladins begin to complain about our DPS being so low. I've seen people post, at level 80, they were pushing 3600 DPS frequently on undead content for over 3-5 minute fights. Of course, I've not seen parses that actually back this up, but for some reason those are the people taken as truth. I'll say right now, I have alot of my DPS AA's, and burning virtually everything I could stack (intensity, holyforge, trib, second spire, self weapon proc) using a solteris weapon with a damage aug, but not having any bard or shammy's in the group, I've maxed out around 2100 DPS on a 3 min fight at 85. /shrug, guess I'm not uber.

Yea, slay isn't as big of a boost as it appears over time. I don't know the exact number, but listening to those that want it nerfed, its decribed as a 400% increase, while in actuality its parsed over time as more of a 25-35% increase. But don't quote my numbers, I don't have it precise and I have no parses that I can link right now to support it.

[Abazzagorath]

Slay (maxed) is about a 50-60% increase to undead dps melee compared to melee damage versus live mobs. Our other undead tools like nukes and better innate procs ups that such that we do about 60-75% more dps against undead compared to live mobs.

Obviously, it spikes much higher at times. That's an over time average not counting holyforge.