Paladin role question

[Opfor]

[boukk]

Hate step is something huge, it allow them to kite something that wouldnt be kitable is the first place, the AA is instant, and move them 200feet in the direction they re facing , recast is fast enough to use it after each summon.

[knytul]

[Normy]

[Opfor]

Someone forgot hybrid innate spell haste...

lanys 1.5 + 1.5
terror 1.0 + 1.5
Spite 1.5
AA 1.0

7 seconds

This also assumes I didn't all ready have Lanys running (unusual), go with Spear 0.5 + 1.5, down to 6.0

And BTW SKs aren't the only one with Hate Step, under a diffrent name.

[Normy]

Wizzy's have the same ability, and they would be good kiters if they didn't have the same ac rating of a lvl 45 warrior.

And I wasn't aware SK's got a 50% haste on detrimental, so I didn't take that into account.

As far as I know the hate modfiers of Echo of Anger and such only affect melee hate generation, correct?

I still stand by my view though, its very similar in either direction. Ideally though an SK and paladin really shouldn't be fighting for agro off each other, just off someone else. Both classes should be able to far out-agro most DPS classes assuming a non-suicidal twincasting wizzy or mage.

[Opfor]

I wasnt thinking wizzies, the other class has been known t tank amazingly well considering what they are wearing.

Lanys is not EoA, but they both affect all hate generated

[Hulkling]

ohhhh hatestep...yeah thats pretty neat for kiting. oh well, so much for my theory lol.

[Opfor]

Unfortunately Hate step is too good for Kiting.

[Hulkling]

[kruelcon]

I dont get this no role stuff people are posting on?
with enough posting we got our group heals uped some our single target agro used right is awsome.
the paladins in our guild tank 90% of the trash ( we did before sod ) i guess its all in how you play
the paladins in our guild battle rez
the paladins in our guild burst heal the tanks alot while doing there other jobs just by toggeling the tank
the paladins in our guild group heal tons
we are called on to cure as much as we can
we step up and tank when needed and do ramp like normal
our snap agro is hella fun if you ask me
i would even go as far as asking for more hate on our group heals leaving out aura heal since it dont have hate we can use that for group heals more so and use the other group heals for more agro thats just my opinion
I for one am loving this new expansion sure we could use some more neet stuf like the sk got shadowstep but they need it in my opinion who likes kiting any way?
I dont see us loosing our role in raiding to anyone anytime soon I guess its all in how you play the game.

[knytul]

[Normy]

Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just the nature of EQ for paladins to disagree with each other though. It seems that no matter what some will always say we are overpowered or just fine, and there is another camp that sees us as entirely gimp and being left behind.

One of the points made that is very true, if a raid has enough of several of classes, it makes paladins less desireable. In other words, we don't have that one distinct ability that makes us really required on a raid.

Its a semi-valid point, we don't have one fantastic ability that makes us wanted on every raid. But as I see it, its our vast array of abilities that make us desireable, not any one niche ability. On the high end I have no doubt that more than a few good paladins is really not warrented, most fights are heavily dependent on DPS so it doesn't make sense to carry 8 paladins. Instead 2-3 is probably what they are more wanting. Same can be said for SK's. I don't know alot of high end guilds that run a raid with 8 SK's when 3 will do.

My guild is knight heavy, and it hurts us sometimes on the DPS front. I imagine the fights in SoF will also have some DPS issues. I believe this is more of what is actually going on, its not that we have no real role, its that SoE put such a strong focus on NEEDING a string of powerful tanks and healers and all out DPS that knights are not kept in large amounts on the high end.

/shrug, then I might just be talking out of my ass. Just a guess.

[kruelcon]

Question then why are you using anything but aurora of marrow or dawnlight for group heals? its a group save heal if some one dont need healed you dont waste mana on them point blank it heals everyone that needs it it does not have any agro so ?

I myself use aurora for group heals non stop i also toss in wave of remitment when needed while im tanking, when not tanking aurora is the only way to go. in my opinion

Thus if more agro was on remitment and the lower group heals it would be a good ae agro not taking away from our ability to group heal leaving aurora non agro

But im a agro hog i like to tank and tank alot so anyting with agro on it i like, thats just my opinion on that. Everyone plays different so everyone has there own opinion on that and probalby different play styles with there group heals. ( when i want ae agro i load 4 of them and burst the puller and chain them it works to a degree if it heals anyone taking damage IF.

[Lisene]

Increasing heal strength, agro or any current abilities won't give us a specific "we are the best at this" role. It would be nice if heals were bigger, but that won't change what we're doing on raids since we'll never be equal to the specialised classes at their role.

One thing that came to mind that we always do and no-one else is Ramp tank, but that's only because of the DA Hammer. Being the defensive knight, maybe this is a direction we could go. A wild ramp mitigation aura that stacks so the more pallies the more mitigation? Some way of shielding group members, taking some of their damage to ourselves from AEs or the like. God forbid, one I just thought of that I don't want, an AA that lets us take a DT for someone else Act of Valour like... pop it when the DT emote hits, if anyone in group is a slacker we take it for them ... no I don't want that one but thought it funny and along the lines of what we our role is.

[Datzyoazz]

[Tuathadendannan]

Pally is the only class I have ever played, from time to time I have borrowed a toon from a friend just to see how it was. If you want you eyes opened, play a Warr during a raid..... after that I seriously doubt you would have any complaints as to the value of paladin's.

My only complaint is a group setting now is the high aggro mages get with twin cast, its a constant effort of casting and mashing to keep aggro, I have noticed that with the SoD mobs one needs to be all up in their grilll while tanking or the mobbies seem to graviate to the nerest melee for aggro. Personally I like pan out and keep an eye out and watch the perimiter while tanking, this has become increasing harder.

[Brohg]

If you're grouped with a magician, all you need for unshakable agro is the Taunt button. Riding a magician pet's agro is "teh hax"

[Joejo]

IMHO if you, as a paladin, arent being used and abused by your guild, in a raid, then your guild has no idea what a pally loves and what he is capable of:)

[shiftie]

Just a thought but it is likely when you pan out to a different view other than first person as a tank. You are likely, though you may have it turned off, getting spammed with "you cannot see your target" messages. In which case you are losing valuable swing aggro. I don't see how mages are all of a sudden generating aggro, I have yet to group with a twin casting mage but I did however manage to handle a twin casting wizzy. Since you struggle with mobs hitting melee instead of you, it is likely the mob is being pushed out of your swing range and the mob then turns to the next pc closest to it whether that be a mage pet or w/e. Imo lose a spell gem and add another stun.

cheers,
shiftie

[knytul]

Cast spells in this order and u should never have agro issues:

Stun
FoDirection
Challenge
Stun
Crush of Compultion

[Ashramm Damodred]

What Knytul said, and I would like to add, that if you don't have echo of anger, get it, I don't have to mash spells on raids, but I also have the TSS anger proc'ing shield, that is very nice for agro when tanking cause knights return strike *WILL* proc the shield.

[shiftie]

Furious bash is pretty much 100% broken if that is what you are referring to. If you want the logistics of why it doesn't work I'm sure someone would be happy to explain the aggro cap and generation of hate on bashes, if you'd rather go on blind faith - just know furious bash of any level is pretty much a joke in the generation/ability to sustain aggro. It plays little to no part.

I agree with the echo of anger

I would hope that paladins at level 85 know the order to stun and how to use the aa ability b/w spell gem refreshes.

Cheers,
Shiftie

[Yirrudno]

I believe the shield being referred to is this one, out of Frostcrypt:

Battered Silver Runed War Shield
Magic Lore No Trade
Slot: Secondary
Proc Effect: Anger II Rate: +0%
» Increase Hate by 400; (Single)
AC: 135 HP: 425 MANA: 415 END: 415
STA: 35 WIS: 28 INT: 28 DEX: 30 AGI: 25 CHA: 22
SV COLD: 32 SV MAGIC: 43 SV POISON: 31 SV DISEASE: 29
Shielding: 4%
Spell Shielding: 4%
DoT Shielding: 4%
Slot 1, type 8: empty
Required level of 75.
Class: WAR, PAL, SHD, BRD

Instead of the Furious Bash focus, it has the Anger proc.

[shiftie]

I stand corrected on the shield, I would however wager it is still little to no aggro. Somehow that shield slipped my mind.