Pally DPS Numbers

[Isaelie]

Lets not talk about "Are we good", or "do we suck", but lets talk numbers instead. I often outdamage Rogues and Beastlords (supposed dps classes) my level, so I might be one of the better level 70 Paladins. Where is everyone at numbers wise?

Isaelie 70 Paladin 275 Normal/500 Undead
Isaelie 73 paladin 280 Normal/650 Undead

[zdrastvicha]

i dont know what beastlords are doing in dps but i dont think pally can touch a rogue at any level dps wise maybe at 80 with max slay and offensive aa on undead we might be closer . but given this link provided by brogett at the safe house for recent parses http://www.brogett.plus.com/rogue_offensive_dps.pdf now mind you this is at level 80 prob with raid gear but i dont see them making a jump of under 250dps to 1600 dps in ten levels and better gear. beastlords you also have to take into account there pets who alone prob out dps in most circumstances. we really arent intended to be a dps class imho. can we have better dps yea it would be nice but ultimetly we are a meat shield. we have good agro maintenece over a single mob and can generally control small crowds all though it takes a lot more work for us then it does for a warrior or sk with there ae agro. we also have the ability to heal fairly well. i personlly would rather keep my tanking and healing abilitys over worrying about my dps.

[zdrastvicha]

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/show ... hp?t=34581 this is the orginal article if any one would like to read it.

[Normy]

Actually, our single target agro is something that is in need of adjustment. Even chain stunning I will lose agro to DPS much too often and relying on the broken taunt ability just plain sucks. I've found that SK's are vastly superior in the single target agro AND the AE agro abilities.

As for DPS, if you are outdoing a rogue with 275 DPS, they are either afk or forgot to equip weapons. Just auto attack with a cheap bazaar weapon will do better than that with a rogue.

[Tanot]

Same thing as Normy said, if you are out damaging BSTs with 275dps they are either asleep at their keyboard or using level 50 weapons. I can sustain around 450-500dps (including pet obviously) at level 71 on the murks in WoS

[olts]

what rogues and bsts do you play with? no way a pally gets even near the dps of any melee or caster class, putting clerics and enchanters aside. (well and bards, but they do group stuff). if i have a undead raid target and i dont offtank (never happening) and i have max melee buffs (never happening) and i pop forge and resolution i can outdps our rangers / bsts / monks / mages / warriors and sks, wielding a 2.0 and i have all aa and fero / cleave VII. no way i outdps a rogue, zerker, wizard, even in lesser gear and with less aa... and i am speaking of a very rare occasion here (never happening)

our dps sux, suck it up. we have a shiny pony to compensate!

as for the aggro: i agree kinda. if i REALLY try i usually dont loose single target aggro, but i have to chain 3 stuns, add overtime hate and even use aa stun when it refreshs. i would like a way for a pally to keep aggro AND chat... ae aggro stays a dream a fear

c.

[shiftie]

I have actually out parsed tss level zerkers and rogues on long fights but then again that is besides the point.

[olts]

[Gorblimey]

Sorry dont have actual numbers but some of my experiences where people have been parsing:

Me at 75 pretty much geared as in magelo whilst in BB grouped with mostly 80s who beat me for gear and aas - in general I was coming pretty low down the pecking order with the monk always first and the war always second - on an undead mob I managed to come in second, might have done better if I hadn't had to cast a few heals!

Me at 76 helping out on final War 1.5 fight in a group with 3 lvl80 wars and another dps class - I actually beat 2 of the wars mostly I think by virtue of being behind the mob and spending more time on my feet than they did for some reason.

And in general I tend to find when somebody is parsing that on a live mob I'll be bottom of the melee classes and on an undead mob I'm lucky to even come close to a true DPser. If somebody is parsing and I'm higher up the pecking order than I'd expect I usually take that as reflecting poorly on somebody who is slacking.

You've got me thinking though so I'll have to see about setting up some parsing of my own and report back.

[shiftie]

harfange the black for example

doing 1.2 million dmg at 1.9k dps over 8 minutes, next person in line was a rogue. One major variance in parses like this he was in the dps group and I was not. I'm not saying it is common but at the TSS level a paladin can out parse rogues and zerkers on undead mobs and I have done it multiple times.

since you asked -
rogue geared with

Fabled Gleaming Obsidian Shard
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Piercing Atk Delay: 20
DMG: 37 Dmg Bonus: 18 AC: 41
Backstab DMG: 30
DEX: +15+2 WIS: +10 INT: +10 AGI: +15+2 HP: +405 MANA: +395 ENDUR: +395
SV DISEASE: +18 SV COLD: +45 SV POISON: +18
Combat Effects: +7 Spell Shield: +1% Accuracy: +5 DoT Shielding: +1% Attack: +20 Regeneration: +4 Damage Shield: +2
Recommended level of 70. Required level of 65.
Effect: Obsidian Shatter (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 1.2 Size: SMALL
Class: WAR RNG BRD ROG BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8 (General: Raid)


while I had

Slot: PRIMARY
Skill: 2H Slashing Atk Delay: 35
DMG: 106 Dmg Bonus: 59 AC: 91
STR: +10+1 DEX: +25+1 STA: +25+1 CHA: 0+3 WIS: +25+1 INT: +25+1 AGI: +10+1 HP: +825 MANA: +825 ENDUR: +825
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +44 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10
Combat Effects: +5 Spell Shield: +2% Accuracy: +6 Strikethrough: +4% DoT Shielding: +2% Attack: +15 Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +3
Recommended level of 70. Required level of 65.
Effect: Ember Strike (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)
WT: 7.5 Size: LARGE
Class: WAR PAL RNG SHD BER
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8 (General: Raid)


I realize these aren't 100% tss weapons but by far not end game etc. For arguments sake once he gears solteris its game over for comparisons as he would make a major jump in dps.

[StPauli]

Against live, straight up burn mobs, the top dps'ers in my guild been putting up about :

3200-4500 dps = zerkers (highly dependent on the duration of the fight)
2000-2500 dps = rogues, beasts, monks, wizards, mages, necros
1200-1400 dps = wars, sk's
700-900 dps = pallies

**for the most part these numbers are w/o shaman or bards. The dps classes would be grouped together to maximize burn discs but i think most of the fights i looked at were on nights we were lacking bards/sham**

We are not bleeding edge, we are farming solteris and working on SoF, most of the guild has at least tss level weapons, a good majority have early solteris level, and a few have end solteris level weapons. Two gods hasn't dropped any 2handers yet so at best our knights have early solteris, a bunch still using 2.5's with dual damage augs. I have the blunt from Beltron.

Against undead mobs its a bit harder to say accurately since it is dependent on luck but the last couple times we killed Christine in Solteris I was about 1330 dps burning holy forge, this is a pretty long fight for my guild because of the resistances she ends up with, so its about as good an indication as I can get for undead parse w/o undead dummies. This is using 106/34 blunt, fero and cleave 7, and not in any kind of a dps group. That said, I know I hit over 2k a few times in FC back a few months ago when we were doing it frequently, though most of those raids I had a bard in with the pallies.

Raid parses are not exactly perfect since there are so many variables but it gives an idea of where we stand anyway. As far as pallies out dps'ing any other class, I think it is possible on undead mobs for us to rank up there with the best of them. If the zerkers live through the fight though, I don't think it is too likely your gonna be able to touch them. I remember out parsing the zerkers back when we were doing demi and killing maggotmieser, but that was before they put in the change to slays causing our crit rate aa's, foci, and buffs to not affect it. Since then I pretty much have to catch the beast and monks sleeping to be able to outparse them on undead on a good day, and have been outparsed by sk's and warriors on undead mobs many times. On live mobs I'm able to outparse the mage pets and chanters, but that's about it.

[Linc]

[Abazzagorath]

On live mobs, in raid burns, I do 900-1200 dps, usually 1000-1100 range.

On undead mobs, in raid burns, I do 1800-4000 dps, usually 2200-2800 range.

On short duration mobs, I see wizards doing 5500 dps, zerkers and rogues 3300 dps. On longer duration mobs I see wizards doing 2500-3000 dps, necros doing 3500 dps, and rogues, zerkers, beastlords doign 2000-2500 dps.

Keep in mind this is TSS/TBS geared raids, we just got out first Big Bynn kill for complete MMM flags last night. We have peaked at 67k dps as a raid, have often fallen back under 40k due to lack of dps classes.

On any fight lasting 5+ minutes, I will usually be #1 to #5 on individual dps on an undead burn mob. By burn mob I mean something you just attack and aren't dealing with adds or breaks that artificially lower dps using gamparse (which most people parsing raids use now).

I expect to fall further behind as we progress higher, but not much, because we're mid tier and have many mid tier "skilled" people. No reason for one wizard to do 5k dps and another to do 1k dps on the same mob other than lack of utilizing their resources. I imagine if all the people in our raid played the game like our best players, we'd do quite a bit more dps and I'd be much further behind.