So how bad did they fark us this time?

[Blabberpuss Stryyker]

Anyone know how they put the screws to us?

[kruelcon]

yes well the one thing i see is our hand of piety maxed used to crit for around 28k now its max is 13999 THAT is a slap in the face... before it was useable with tanks getting hit for over 12k and ae's in that same damage range it used to be able to save your group now its just crap imo. yes im very upset about this bad nerf. they need to fix this asap.....

[Normy]

I'm hesitant to say that Ward seems to be working a slight bit better than before

But HoP did take it in the nuts.

[Huurgh]

This happens because the +heal amout ability of items apparently was calculated by the recast time of the heal spell. This was wrongly also done on AA abilities recast timers. Noting the huge recast delay on some of them, massive amounts of free extra healing was generated. Because of this some mages got 80k pet heals, and some heal abilities of other classes did too much too.

Its unfortunatle, but it really was not supposed to work like this.

[Veril]

HoP has been broken since Day 1 of the SoF expansion Today they fixed it.

Portraying that as anything else is stupid

[simwean]

[Vasei]

I don't think anybody's trying to say you shouldn't feel sad for losing something you liked. Particularly a shaman. And yes, I'm sure anyone playing a shaman during PoP indulged in their share of "dear sweet Cazic, my class is useless now". (of course, your implication that losing a 30 min AA somehow is on par with the fiasco of slow mitigation is kind of laughable)

However, I think you've got to dredge up a similar amount of empathy when a class whose stated niche is HEALER thinks it's a little more balanced that a TANK does not now have healing AA far in excess of what they currently have.

Of course, I'm not sure you should feel like the target here, Simwean, since you're not the one spamming your outrage on half the threads on this board.

[Veril]

The recast time on the various AA's meant that the healing mob was giving disproportionate returns. That 1 pt gives 600+ is clearly wrong.

Of course it's a loss of power, but the fact it was giving so much especially when compared to how it affected spells was so blatently incorrect that I have no sympathy or tollerance for the inevatable whining, crying and petulance that will be expressed by paladin's about it. .

Day 1 of SoF with your AA maxed you could crit for 13K, now adding in a bunch of healing mobs pushing that up to 28K (or more) is so blatenly utterly fundamentally incorrect that it had to get fixed.

The AA's should have a recast timer set in that field so that the healing mod does havesome effect, but an apropriate, proportionate effect.

[Abazzagorath]

[Saintsaens]

[Nyterose]

[Huurgh]

[Normy]

I am very sad to see the HoP lined "lowered" or sorts, but most of us did see a rather large increase early and liked it. In reality, the heal bonus was never supposed to work that way, and I knew it was going to be changed again. The only reason we are complaining now is because we liked how much our heal was doing when it was "broken."

So really this is a seperate issue. They removed an inadvertant bonus that they never meant to have in there. Call it a nerf if you want. Its like saying that on a hypothetical patch day, our useless AA that is supposed to transfer all our HP to another person and kill us gets broken and it no longer drains our health. Then it gets popular because its an instant heal. Then the devs come in and fix, is that still a nerf?

I think that all this has done has shown alot of us that in our current state, HoP needs a real fix. Not some inflated amount added on accident, but a real increase in power to keep it relevent to our current capacity in health, damage being taken, ect. As it stands, this basically means that on a good day, we can use this AA to heal 13k every half an hour, IF we crit. So lets focus on that instead of the supposed nerf.

[dindaur]

[Occam]

I think a lot of people are missing the point (though dindaur just touched upon it). Yeah, sure it was not working as intended. I accept that. But that doesn't mean that its intended effectiveness (had it been working as intended all along) would necessarily have been satisfactory.

Personally, I don't think it was all that overpowered. Yes, it was nice. Very nice. I loved it. But how sad is it how that alone is often enough for people to use as evidence that something is overpowered? Clearly we can't love an ability that much; something must be wrong! One would hope that one day, all classes will have abilities they love, instead of fiercely guarding their mediocre crap whilst simultaneously making sure no one else's crap rises above mediocre either.

The sky is not falling, however. Yeah, it sucks now. As do our group heal spells. They're arguably not worth memming anymore. But I, for one, didn't decide to become a Paladin because of HoP being what it was, nor does my continued enjoyment of the class rest on that one feature. The alarmists and drama queens will continue to scream about it, and those with some kind of grudge against us (including some on this very board, I fear) will continue to enjoy it. Though I must admit I don't understand why anyone would be so happy about losing its help on their raids. It may have been a Paladin ability, but everyone benefits from it.

[Veril]

[Occam]

You have a point, and sometimes we don't know what we're missing until we get it (and then have it taken away).

But at this point, 7k really isn't what it used to be, even for non-raiders, casuals, and alts, thanks to SoF's group gear. I think our group healing (both spells and AA) could use some boosts to keep up with HP inflation, as could that of other group healing classes. Anyway, I'm not outraged, and I think people claiming that Paladins are going to leave en masse need a reality check. It's not worthless, just meh again (in keeping with the norm for most classes).

[Hulkling]

[Veril]

[Hulkling]

[Siocnarf]

Also dont forget to reach those numbers with HoP you need sink well over 100 AAs in it.For a ability that cost over 100 AAs it should at least heal 75-80% of even the bigest tanks and not like less then 25%.Personally even when it was critting around 25 k i was frowning at the 100 + aa cost.It sure is alot for a once per 24 min ability and i have maxed AAs since PoR.

[dindaur]

i used hop today and it didnt fully heal the group. im not completely torn up by this fact, but it does make it a little less great. it used to be a group loh, now its a group... heal which may leave 30 percent ish left in the hp bar. i think the nerf was not targeting paladin insta group heal. i think our heal was fine before. i think its fine now. i think the devs would agree. and i think the devs wouldnt have problems with making hop as strong as it was before this patch.

[Brohg]

I think the pre-patch version doesn't leave room for continued improvement, and so probably won't be returned to. A strong case can be made to re-grant HoP some boost from Healing Amount again, though.

[Normy]

Or tune down the cost of the ranks and add more ranks. That wouldn't be a horrible compromise, refund the AA's spent on some of the last ranks, increase the sheer number of ranks to be higher and more appropriate, and lower the required AA per rank.

The goal would be to come out with a stronger and more appropriate group heal, but make it cost very similar to how much it costs to max it now.

[Jace]

[dindaur]

i dont think they will add more ranks but i think they might up the heals a bit.
maybe.

but this mess isnt tooo big really. hop is still insta and that is its real perk.

[kruelcon]

SO are we gonna try to get this uped to a respectable heal ?group heals are making all these aa's look like a real waste of time. shammys 9 aa's for intervention critting for over 22k is nice why are we spendin over 100 aa's for a 7k group heal that can be cast every 24+ mins. can we get or are we trying to fix this or something so we have some sort of hope? are they ever gonna fix our other group heal thats suppose to be as good or they gonna wait for next expansion when its usless again. do we have anyone working on this or whats going on? lots of classes need help im wondering if we are gonna get any ? Please throw us a bone give us some hope.

[dindaur]

[knytul]

[Huurgh]

[Normy]

[knytul]

[Thebobo]

[ZsaZsa Vavoom]

[Normy]

[ZsaZsa Vavoom]

[knytul]

i did, that woman got PWNed!!

[Veril]

I never killed or attacked my god.

[frocus]

Btw not sure if anyone mentioned this earlier some of the posts got a bit ridiculous, but the formula for calculating heal amount and spell damage is (cast time/4)*(heal amount) or for instant cast spells like procs that aren't in a spell book or now the AA heals (heal amount/4). There is also a ceiling wherein the mod can't provide more than the base value for amount of damage done/healed.

I also believe instead of making the spell recast timer on it 0 they should have made it 18 or 30 seconds to provide some decent amount of improvement thru heal amount just by virtue of hte huge cost of both LoH and HoP. My poor baby froggy pally is very sad atm : P

[frocus]

Odd from all my parses I am showing the return on the new mod 3's to be 1/4 cast time times mod but Hulk seems to have been told by devs its 1/7 of cast time sorry for the mis info.