Lets Try to Get Something Back

[StPauli]

I would defiantly buy aa upgrades to divine stun if they increased the push and resist rate of Divine stun. As it is i only use it for pushing mobs around. I use this to make piles for the chanters to cc and i also use it to push mezed mobs back into the raid when they end up getting mezed too far out. I would like to see the push doubled in size, it would not be so big that it would overpush but would defiantly speed up the moving process because using it now is extremely tedious, yet remains our only means of moving mezed mobs around w/o waking them. As far as getting the stun pushed up to land on mobs over my level , i can defiantly see some use in it as Kruelcon said for pushing mobs that are incoming out of a pack and giving you an extra second or 2 to generate hate and also separating it from the pack so you don't have to fight with all the other knights over the same mob. I don't know that i would use it for this in all honesty but i can see why someone would want to and if they like that method, more power to them, it was something the aa originally did i don't see why it shouldn't be upgraded to do it again. for me though I would really like to see the push increased.

As far as Light and touch go... I am like Hulkling, in that I don't even mem light. I keep burst and touch up all the time, light hasn't been memed since we got the first burst. If Light was retuned to be a bigger heal with a longer range maybe i would use it but honestly I have never really found light to be of much use and even less nowadays where mobs hit for so much and burst works so much better for all of what light used to do a weak job at. That said, there are some who use light and don't like touch and I don't really see a way to make a mid ground that would make anyone happy. Making a mid ground would mean that touch loses some of its healing power and reach for what? a slightly faster casting time? i think i would rather wait that extra 1 second then have to run around trying to get in range of the person I'm trying to heal. I say retune them both and keep them separate so that people can continue to use what they like.

Now to get back to what was proposed in the original posts. Heck yah i would love to see our grp heals get a small cure. I have a growing list of things i am hoping to propose to the devs for our next expansion and that was one of the things on the list.

I was also thinking, which is kind of on the same line of thought. How about in the next expansion, we shoot for an upgrade to our innate weapon proc that adds a grp heal / cure recourse like our pal weapons used to have. A recourse effect so its not some kind of aggro boost but enough to remove tash and give a tiny heal to everyone in our group. I personally loved this proc back in the day, and though I do really like having rune procs and stuff for aggro on a 1hander, I think this proc was really nice. I think it would be an awesome upgrade to our innate proc since they have seemingly done away with the proc over the past several expansions.

As far as the snare added to our dd's, I would love a snare vs undead but i never used the dd we had as a snare because it was far far to unreliable. i really don't use the undead nukes, they are far too underpowered imo. I haven't been able to really parse a definite increase in our dps vs undead by using the dd's over getting an extra few swings and hoping for a slay. Having a snare would be cool but i think it would have to be something that lands every cast, and would have to be a separate line from the "dps" undead nuke otherwise i could see situations where a snare would be rather annoying. Honestly, I don't really see an undead snare as being something i would argue for over other things i think would be much more useful. We don't have a means of killing mobs while kiting them, The number of raid encounters or even exp zones that are undead is pretty small, and most undead do not run so really, what is the use?

[Hulkling]

Divine Stun 4 getting pushed live with next patch

[Finhorn]

[Khael]

[dindaur]

[StPauli]

[dindaur]

[Peaky]

I use both, though not in the same line up. If I'm soloing harder T2 or the small section of T3 SoF that I can handle, I use burst + light, as touch is just plain too slow (especially on mobs that I can't stun [undead, 81+]). If I'm soloing T2 SoF or lower content anywhere, I use burst + touch. I do think combining them would be nice, but what parts would we be forced to give up to have this new fast/medium-sized heal? I like things the way they are with regard to these spells, and the negative aspects of each seem to be balanced correctly (slower cast time in exchange for long range; lower heal amount in exchange for fast cast time).

I'm all for getting more/better spells, but I don't see these as a problem worthy of the request with so many other spells having issues at present. Hell, if you really want to push for a change, why not ask for Silent Piety to be restored to it's original self-DI chance (since shm and dru got self-DI chances not long after it was too much for us to have . . .).

[dindaur]

[kruelcon]

ok i know we lost some stuff to keep our slay undead but this is stupid we need some dps i have fbow with 7 damage aug in it not great but not terrible. comparable to rest in my guild. im gettin out dps'ed by even enchanters and sk's are out dpsing me on undead mobs by far now. its almost embarasing we need some dps back i mean my god i have parse's from the last month if anyone cares. i was curious cause seemed like we took 20 steps back on all dps this expansion so i got the new parse program and my god who kicked us under the rug we are the lowest dps of all the classes in the game besides a cleric (that never dps's). Can we get some kind of dps and yes if you need any parse info i have left mine on for last month have a ton of group info and lots of raid info. if anyone cares to look at it i have the damage of the compareable people's weapons and all. even aa's to make sure its not that issue. dunno who to talk to trying to see about fixing this so figured id post here or try a dev. but its sad when were mid dps on undead when thats what we sacrificed all the supposedly good shit for to keep. i figure if i post here ill get a rise out of some one and maybe get some response. maybe some help fixing this problem.

[dindaur]

sure, post those parses

[Brohg]

My suggestion is to take a look at how many swings you're taking compared to another knight with same-delay weapon. The two (out of five or seven each night in our guild) shadowknights who outdamage you do so by working very hard to time spell casting between swings, so as to not lose any melee dps. For burn fights, they request both shm Cougar and enc Mana Flare. The devil's in the details. Don't look at the final number until you've accounted for every little thing.

[shiftie]

try using aa stun b/w stun casts or trial
you can cast it between the gem refresh

also the aa stun is decent for root pulling
if you aa stun the mob to pull you can then place the root instead of leaving a mob hanging in space with the potential to bring adds.

granted the aa stuns don't work that great for what they were intended - I swear the actual aggro on the stun is broken. It causes some aggro but I don't think it works as intended in that respect.

I wouldn't mind seeing an a stun that can't be resisted (even in pvp) rangers get that wicked snare and chanters have that mez we shouldn't see the resist rate via pvp on our aa stun that we do. The return on it is laughable pvp. I know this isn't super relevant PvP and all but, I loathe chasing wizards ... reaching them just in time for a nuke to land and netherstep to drop. The only hope is that immobilzing bash hits... and even then its not enough time to break through runes.

if we really want something useful back... lets beg for a root upgrade that isn't so finicky ... i also find it incredibly annoying that root ... and stun don't land pvp they are 2 of our only offensive spells... unless you count the mana drain and 125 dd nuke which really add to the database over at sadinthepants/groinpunch. Anyhow an aa root would be nice too... even one with a long refresh.

dare i say pacify?

Ok more realistic... I agree 100% with the morrow acting like the purification aa... for 6k mana the only place i've found it useful was to tank crystallos when burst is down and the cleric heal just isn't going to land.

shiftie

[kolor]

what happened to divine stun 4? the description of divine stun got changed to something like "rank 4 stuns mobs up to level 83", but we only have 3 ranks available

[Hulkling]

Interesting. I'll ask whats up.

[Vaindolf]

Yea agree, dont think aggro on AA stuns work as intended, cuase its a minor very very weak aggro atm, and as paladin feels like slipping behind aggro wise versus others (dps/tanks). One of the reason might be they placed rk3 stun as last rune, wich in my guild i will see earliest 2012 when 4 new expansion already out
Same on lvl76 rune wich we never gets anymore. Stupid stupid stupid system they came up with, and i bet it wouldnt hurt to increase drops on runes in raids cause in this rate you will never come close to filling a guild with spells until they are absolete due to new spells out.

[Thebobo]

[dindaur]

[Thebobo]

dindaur

It’s not a “claim.” It is what I experience. I am not looking to prove anything to anyone; I explained my situation as it is. Others have posted similar situations. Asking me or anyone for proof is no different then asking you for proof that you allegedly experience no agro problems. The difference is I’ll take your word on it.

[Normy]

Hrm... Right now I raid FC, AG, and working on Solteris. I have to say, I'm not horribly disappointed with our agro at the moment. If I want it and am ready to take it, I usually have it. Having a DPS pull it from me from time to time does happen, rarely, but its usually nothing a taunt won't handle and lasts only a few seconds.

I'm of the belief that I don't use taunt unless I have to, there was once a discussion about how taunt works that indicated you could actually lose agro if you were already in lead agro position and you taunt. Don't know if its true or not, but since then I save it for when I need it rather than mash it the whole time.

That said, I wouldn't complain about some upgrades in that regard. Our agro really hasn't scaled up at the same rate as the DPS has scaled up, so it is more difficult than it was in the past.

[dindaur]

[Vaindolf]

I play with the top end characters, soon to beat Kera in Crystallos. I have experienced more and more trouble to grab (snap) and to hold aggro nowadays from lots of dps classes. Maybe cause we havent got rk3 stun yet is one reason, thanks SoE for putting them on bottom of rune list, really great!..
Wont go into details but pally aggro dont seems too good atm in the later game. Its my feeling/experience atm.

[dindaur]

im guessing from the lack of screams on these and other tank boards that tanking is still possible.

every year the same complaints are made about aggro being more difficult.

i say this is because
- dps weapon ratios improve
- dps discs strengthen fast
- knight weapons upgrade slow
- knight hate upgrades slow

we could be philosophical and say they WANT it difficult in raids.

it all amounts to you the paladin upgrade slower than they the dps

and perhaps they are not being careful about their aggro

[Thebobo]

Why does it have to be some complicated, snap hate generation from paladins has not scaled well at all, intact we have slowly lost it compared to other classes over the years. Already went into detail on the Sony forums where a dev might actually read it concerning our snap agro scaling problem.

[kruelcon]

i agree pallys have took a step back on agro i raid mmm content atm and any time i look around a sk is ganking my agro and im using rk2 stuns fod 2-4 group heals and all i got to see is one or 2 cast from a sk in group and my agro is gone. so yes we need more agro. especially snap agro. or a wizy chain nuking will take my agro also and thats not good when i have 2 stuns 2 group heals invested and taunted. think we should be able to hold agro off the bers and wizzys little better maybe its the rk3 stuns we need. i dunno but it sure seems lacking compared to sk, wars take agro as intended but we should be even to sk's on off tanking department in my opinion.

[Normy]

On an unrelated note: Would it be too much to ask for more even curing ability? I mean, we are listed on Cure Corruption Rk3, but we don't actually get the spell. We also have three less ranks of Radiant Cure, and we have no AA's to speed up the recast of it anyway. Especially with the corruption cures needed in some of the fights I've been in recently, it would be nice if I could actually cure again, 2-3 casts of a cure per person per DoT is a little excessive.

[Siocnarf]

Sk lifetap is 1609 dmg/hp healed ,necros 1956 hp those are rank2 so its about 82 % as good.Sk lvl 61 snare is 60% snare,necros 75% so another spell at 80 % efficacity.Feeding mana to others via group taps sks bites give 781 hp/338 mana both together, vs the necro 1054 hp (over 54 sec) /454 mana over (24 sec) so about 75% efficicacity compared ( altho i havent see a necro use his group HoT in a while since its only 122 per pulse and its off a lvl 65 spell the last version).Sks has more and better versions of FD then necros also.

Pal HoT : 1023 hp ,clerics 1695 hp about 60% as good.Pal best direct heal 3319 hp (spell) ,clerics is 4655 hp( for the sub 35% hp only spell) or 5070 hp ( for the 3,75 casting) so either 71 % or 65% efficacity there.Pal root is 1:24 min (but 0,75 casting) ,clerics is 3 min duration (2,5sec casting) so 46 % efficicaty duration wise but the casting time is a nice for pal.Only pal big thing over clerics is the lay hands, group lay hands AAs but the balancing effects of clerics has a very smiliar effect to hand of piety and the 24 min refresh on both pal lay hands makes it kinda very situational.

I guess the curing would be the equivalent of the group hp/mana feeding of sk/nec in terms of utility in that departement it seems pretty much = beteween pal and clerics total counter wise but the clerics best cures are tied to heals so big mana costs and they have the add timer reuse deducer AAs for RCs that pal dont.So even in the cure department the clerics is a fair margin ahead overall (and have group versions of there cures outside of RC(wich is really flakie no matter the class using it granted) once per 3min.I think adding the RC refresh lowering AAs would be apropriate and maybe add group cure spells lines would be good in term of total efficacity compared to parent class.

I have a sk roommate his not as well geared as me but he seems to have a better symbiosis against dark blue less mobs then me ( uses less mana per mob easyer to get singles anywhere ) but SKs cannot deal with having adds in middle of fight or kill a yellow con mob @ 80 solo tanking it .( altho i use like 75% of my 16 K mana to do so).So in term of spell efficacity they are higher/closer to there parent class in efficacity but overall in the solo big picture they cannot sustain the dmg paladin can sustain but if the mob dosent have a huge dps they are more efficient and kill faster.Big surprise considering 1 is a offensive hybrid tank VS the defensive hybrids tank anyway to begin with.

[Normy]

I would gladly welcome some group cure spells to help with AE's during events. Something useful, either a seperate spell line for corruption, even if weaker than the cleric version, would be a welcome spell versus having to target cure 5 people with 2-3 casts each.

[kruelcon]

siocnarf I dont have any idea where you get the idea a sk cant solo yellow con mobs. sk can solo better than a pally if he plays his class can fd tap any time he gets low. i have watched sk solo drake in cryst. so dont compare a non dressed poor geared sk to the good ones. not saying that a pally cant solo there cause i have solo'ed a drake. just to see if i could. but never say a sk cant solo there solo machines if they know there class.

[Siocnarf]

Well it must be pretty creative for sk try to solo a yellow con that summons.Specially if it have the sof mobs dps.Compared to the pal who can just stay there and toss heals ( but use like 75% mana for a demi geared +).

I havent seen one personally ,not saying its not doable just that it involves a % of luck and a good part of igeniosity (and alot of gear).Its alot more basic/straight forward for a pal thats all.

[knytul]

OR how about no matter what class you play, if ur truly creative enough, youd be surprised the shit you can solo....OMG *FAINT*

[shiftie]

You can't compare efficiency... anyone that is worth their salt knows how to conserve mana and has the gear to solo. A low end to mid tier pally is in the same boat that a low end to mid tier sk is. Both of those toons have no business soloing yellow cons... there is a price that is paid to be able to do stuff like that, and its called learning how to play your toon while earning the 1-2k aa's it takes to solo a yellow con. And during that time frame you're likely to get a few clickies along the way... and clickies rule eq

Let's talk SK epic click

it heals for like 85% of the damage done to a mob -
Higher end sk's with the right aa while using epic crit for 2-2.5k with a normal hit of 800 that's a lot of healing. Give that same sk a higher damage weapon and they are healing better than ward of tunare used to.

While I wouldn't trade the paladin heal focus from the click; the sk epic click would be a nice addition to the arsenal.

edited* because i looked up the spell info

[Hulkling]

SK epic click is group also. That thing will scale infinetly. Pally epic click will scale infinetly as well, but the SK click just keeps getting more and more powerful.

[Cellan]

Here's a thought. How about updating our cure line?

2 ways it can be done that I would like to see.

1. Add a detrimental cure to it making it like a single target radiant cure.
2. Make it a group cure without the detrimental added to it.

Don't think that's alot to ask.

[Vaindolf]

Who cares about cures anymore? Not a singel event lately you needed a pally curing other then RC6 occatially. The really hard cures for MT etc being handled by druids/shammys.
Kinda glad we not a "curer" anymore. Tho we can on most events if really needed.

[Normy]

[dindaur]

Whether we cure or not has alot to do with the raid make up. The content will kick out debuffs that need curing. In DoD we saw RGC based cures. Each curer was worth 3 cured people including themselves. This means you'd need a 1 to 3 ratio of curers to cured to win flawless without dps well beyond the content. when bulk cures are required then alternative sources to cures become more useful. Otherwise we cure when we have noone else to cure. A shortage of clerics druids or shammies.

[Cellan]

[Jarcey Heyokah]

i say swing the nerf bat on ya... but thats me

[Imrahil]

??