Potion buff slots

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Potion buff slots

Postby SBBD » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:53 am

I'd like to see potion buffs get there own section for buffs so they stack with all the normal buffs,it would be nice if distillate of health stacked with the cleric buffs and skinspikes stacked with the new visage illusions from the card game,for those of you that dont know the visages have a 5 point DS component.
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Postby Vigdis » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:39 am

Yeah I the Pyrilen card has DS it seems. My friend got one. I am SOOOOOOOOO jealous.

I wouldn't keep my hopes up on the buff slots though. First of all its quite a major implement, and secondly think the potions would be so powerful they'd be reduced in efficiency to maintain balance. Id rather have semi decent potions instead of stackable crap potions. Also if they would be less effective, one might as well get that extra piece of gear and you have that boost permanently.

With that being said I would still be overjoyed if they did what you suggest.
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Postby Clamford » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:16 am

I thought the potions were implemented so that you didn't need PC buffs to function (i.e. a group doesn't need a chanter for chanter-type buffs; they can get by with potions if no chanters are available). If PC buffs stacked with potions, every smart player would be back in the same boat as before, needing to find every type of PC to buff them, in addition to using potions. Of course you could use one or the other, but you could also use none of them, and realistically no one does that.

I think potions are a way to address the iffy server populations of today. Making them stack with PC buffs undoes that fix.
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Postby Retron » Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:41 pm

Clamford wrote:I think potions are a way to address the iffy server populations of today. Making them stack with PC buffs undoes that fix.

Some history:

Originally potions did something amazing. You required drops from mobs, but they gave you more HPs than any other class could buff in slot 4, they gave you great (stackable) regen, they gave a short duration haste.

Then some newer potions came along, storebought ones. They did things like boost your stats and saves, but in a way that stacked with most major buffs (eg Null Aura stacked with Endure/Resist Magic).

Luclin brought "enchanter-lite" potions: mana regen, mana pool, effective casting level increase buffs. With the exception of the latter, they again stacked with everything.

Fast forward to the alchemy revamp. With the exception of the odd potion like Skinspikes, everything that was unique about shaman potions was lost. The HPs one won't stack with cleric buffs, the mana regen one won't stack with KEI, stats and resists use the same slots as the player buffs. Thus, they're nothing more than an alternative to player buffs, rather than an augment on top of player buffs. Of course, if they stacked then they'd have to have their power reduced to compensate, but the old potions managed that just fine.

I've said a few times that it's a damned shame that we've lost the essence of alchemy, instead having "standard" buffs in a bottle.

Perhaps this could be something to push after SoF launch, when Ngreth may have some free time?
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Postby Catmandew » Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:49 pm

I would not mind some No Trade potions that we could make and use that would stack with other classes buffs, since we don't get any sort of self HP buff. I also truely miss the days when a snare potion was actually worth having, but life is changes and we move on.
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Postby Kianor » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:11 am

I think that having a potion alternative to player buffs is valuable, I don't think we should lose that and I don't think that the current potions should be made to stack with player buffs.

However, I do like the idea of adding something on top of that. The problem with that is if it's useful, in some situations it becomes a "must have". Can you imagine a HP or AC potion that stacks with everything else? It will become a must have on raids. If it's not useful, it's irrelevant anyway.

I like alchemy, and I want it to be useful, but I don't want EQ to go the way of WoW where everyone needs to farm continuously for potions for raids because they make all the difference.
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Postby Kilgaroz » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:34 am

Kianor wrote:I like alchemy, and I want it to be useful, but I don't want EQ to go the way of WoW where everyone needs to farm continuously for potions for raids because they make all the difference.


Agreed.
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Postby Unmei » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:52 pm

The irony is that I expect that if you asked the average man on the street how many potions they use today vs how many potions they used to use back before you "lost the essence of alchemy" I think you'd discover that potion usage is way more prevalent today.

I'll be honest. I never even -met- anyone who acknowledged using the older potions outside of blood of the wolf and maybe gate. I had some potions of greater concentration because a friend made a bunch of them while skilling up, but they were barely worth the bag space to carry around. I think I still have some collecting dust in the bank. I used the regen potion to help PL my newbie shaman up to about level 30 when they stopped providing enough regen to really worry about.

Maybe someone used the resist potions, but I'd never heard of anyone bothering. I used to routinely scour the lists of potions looking for -anything- useful, and they always seemed to come up short.

You're right about one thing though. Potions have moved from an "extra power for the shaman class" function to more of a "general game balance" function. Which was almost certainly for the best.
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Postby Kilgaroz » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:29 pm

Back when we were raiding in Ssra, most of the clerics kept me busy making Greater Concentration. They didn't have mana regen clickies and every bit helped on some of the longer fights.
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Postby Retron » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:58 am

Unmei wrote:I'll be honest. I never even -met- anyone who acknowledged using the older potions outside of blood of the wolf and maybe gate.

You said that last time! :wink:

Therefore, I'll say what I said last time: people who knew about them always came back for more. Greater Concentration potions were very popular, despite the ~80pp a dose cost. Elixirs of Divine Endurance were damned popular too, they stacked with everything (back in the days before everyone had Form of Protection / Cave Bear elixirs). And, as mentioned, the resist potions were handy back in the days when reaching 500 in a resist was a pipe dream.

It's a shame we can no longer do what we did a couple of years ago.
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Postby Brohg » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:53 pm

I'm in agreement with Unmei. Your experience with the level of demand for old-style potions seems somewhat unique, Retron. SoW & Gate potions were the only ones people wanted.
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Postby Retron » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:32 am

Brohg wrote:SoW & Gate potions were the only ones people wanted.

Maybe Venril Sathir was a world unto its own then. All I know is I made a small fortune from thoe old potions and in the LDoN era they sold like hot cakes.
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Postby Ughbash » Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:14 am

Only old potions I used were gate and occasionaly the gate to everfrost.
Only new potions I use are gate, and VERY occasionaly (as in maybe once a month if the group healer is slacking or dead on a raid) a celestial healing 10.
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Postby Unmei » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:28 pm

Maybe some high end raiders with too much money liked the Greater Concentration or the Divine Endurance ones, but most people weren't interested in paying the price for those for the extremely marginal benefit they provided.
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Postby Macnair » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:12 pm

Back in the day I was pretty aggressive in marketing potions, but in general the ones that sold were gate and port potions, sow and shrink, and the pre-nerf calimony potions (which were very powerful if used in particular circumstances). I think I had an overall alchemy profit of about 23,000 plat, after subtracting the costs of skilling up to 250. That was notable amount of cash to me, back then.

I don't work on making money on alchemy any more. There are several hundred doses of Clarity X, HoT X, and DS X for sale in the Maelin bazaar at any given moment. I still make my own, but only for my own toons and occasionally for guildmates.
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Postby Kaisung » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:19 am

Like MacNair, I mostly make potions for my own use. Clarity X for when the chanters are on strike (or I can't be bothered to go find one), Quint of Knowledge for my Ranger's Concerentia (sp?) neck item, Gate pots for all my non-gaters, No-fail invis pots for my cleric, and Celestial Healing X for use after a Frenzied Canni - brings me right back up to full health. About the only thing I bother trying to sell are illusion pots if/when I happen to get the various parts to make them with. Nothing else is worth trying to sell in the 7th bazaar, as they just don't bring in much of a profit. Too many people undercutting prices to the point that you can barely make a single plat's worth of profit on a sale. Hell, I put a stack of SoW5 pots on my mule for exactly 1 Plat more than my cost to make, and they never sold.

Making potions stackable with other buffs would solve the marketing issues for alchemy, by making the potions way more attractive, but like others here, I question what it will do to gameplay.
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Postby Samanna » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:49 am

I'd rather see potions remain an alternative (vs addition) to player buffs. I don't want to have to have a bunch of potions in effect to keep up with the Joneses.
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