Apology and statement.

[Ngreth Thergn]

This is a mixed bag So I wills tart with the apology.

I apologize for all of the problems with the alchemy revamp. My only excuse is that I am new. To summarize the current bugs that are still awaiting a patch.
Alchemy Trophy is not gaining exp from any combine but the new ones.
Some of the earlier trophy tasks have trivials out of line.
Some of the OLD potions now have a shorter than intended duration.
The new throwing potions only stack to 20 instead of 100
The item exchange from old to new went badly.
All of the above has been fixed, but is awaiting a full patch. I expect the item exchange will complete on that patch, but it will be scheduled by the coders and not the design team, so I am not 100% sure on that one.

Also the potion that gave mana regen that stacked with Clairy and such. This was an oversight. While we understand that you want it back now, we want to give it more thought than just slamming something in, and instead give something more in line with the current way we are doing potions. We do plan on adding it back, and hopefully as something better, but it will be a while. While I understand it is not the news you wanted to hear, I wanted to give you the truth of it.

Now the statement is something I am not sorry for. While we did this revamp, we fixed some bugs on a few potions that were more powerful, or due to a different "quirk" cheaper than intended. The Remove poison/remove disease potions were not meant to be that powerful. 80 disease counters in 20 seconds is much more than intended.
The gate potion was not meant to be that "cheap" by selling it back with one charge for such a high price. I compromised with the gate potions and made them significantly cheaper than they were per potion, but there is no longer the exploit of selling back one charge for such a high price, so yes, the net effect is that they are more expensive. The reality of it is they were MEANT to cost 242 or so per dose, not the lower price they were per dose because of the bug.
Both of these were long standing bugs. Despite them being around for a very long time, we still want to fix bugs. Even old ones.

The other two potions that we did not replicate we saw as much more limited use. +10 to all saves for 3 minutes is just not that much, and +3 to casting level for 3 minutes...a gain... not very effective. The one thing we were told it was useful for, well not really. the curse is -100 casting levels... adding 3 more to you -30 effective casting level of make -27 is not really that much. We will consider both of these along with the stacking mana regen potions.

We really hope that people will like and buy the new stat potions from alchemists, now that they are cheaper and have an extra effect. Now that they can be sold for a reasonable price, since they do not cost an arm and a leg to make, they should go better. And it should not cost as much of an arm and a leg to level any longer, seeing the whole price structure is significantly cheaper.

SO again, I apologise for all of the errors. I hope you do really like it after you give it a chance, and all of the unfortunate bugs have been ironed out.

[Samanna]

Thanks, man.

[Keileen]

Speechless...almost...thank you for the heads up, Ngreth =)

[Tharkis]

[Brohg]

[Magsham]

[Dreic]

[Layya EQOracle]

[konarg]

[Brohg]

[runeshaman]

I have been playing Everquest off and on since Velious era and I can honestly say Ngreth that you have to be the best thing that has ever happened to this game. The one complaint I have had with EQ over the years was lousy customer support and it seems that thanks to you this has become a thing of the past. I think players for the most part underestimate the stress of the dev team's jobs and I always thought that the reverse was also true in that the devs didn't consider the stress of the players when things "didn't work" and we couldn't get a response. The fact that you take the time to keep us informed and keep giving us heads ups is what the player community has wanted all along. As someone posted in another of the threads just doing that buys you time to get your job done because showing us that you actually care about our concerns holds off the tide of rants and complaints. Can you imagine the massive amounts of flames about this alchemy revamp and the few bugs that came along with it had you NOT told us in advance what was happening and been keeping us posted on changes. I know a lot of people have been posting their thanks and admirations, I just wanted to add my own. The shaman community, and yes even the alchemists among us, really appreciate the effort you are putting forth.

[Scowls]

i say leave it on the ground, after all it wont buy the ferrari you want.

i used to use DS potions a few expansions ago, but a slowed mob with 40k hps really doesnt do that much dmg to itslef in damage shields. it does do some damage, but honestly it made little difference. DS is something we do only with potions, unlike mages, bards, druids where people expect it from. if you were making plat in the bazaar seling DS potions before, consider changing to HoT potions...even before the revamp they were 8p to make, and now its ALOT cheaper

[Aruman]

[Henora]

It's good to have someone who cares enough to take the time to explain. I honestly think that it makes things easier on you. People don't go freakout balastic as badly when it is obvious that someone cares about the job they are doing and the people they are serving.

I've seen a couple comments recently from SOE people since POR launch that made me cringe. Stuff along the lines of "It's the way it is because I said so and if you don't like it, I'll just take it away!!" It's so refreshing to have you around here Ngreth with your detailed explanations. Mistakes happen, as long as we know there is someone listening and willing to fix the mistake people are pretty patient and understanding. Plus, I think you're doing a better job of beating yourself up over it than we ever could.

Regarding the damage shield potions... unless you all had a pre-planned and developed reason to nerf them, there's no reason to not put them back to their original power. If you did have a reason, it would be helpful to pass it along to us.

[Ungkor]

Cure Disease potions were the only potions that we had bothered to make for raids, ever. (That had a significant impact). Namely the AMV fight. From your statements I take it this was not intended.

Question: Are alchemy products ever going to be considered something that raids might use to gain significant advantage?

Prior to getting to anguish, I always consider alchemy products as "just something nice to have", but by no means necessary to success. Is that the intended role of alchemy products? Nice to have but not necessary?

(of course, healing pots are used, but they are also vendor sold, I'm referring to only shaman made potions).
(Since the nerf of disease pots, we've beat amv once without using any potions at all, so I suppose prior to the nerf they weren't really needed either hehe)

I kinda have mixed feelings on this issue, and honestly don't care what role alchemy plays on raids. On one hand, its nice to have my alchemy skill needed, but on the other hand, I have nightmares about making thousands of combines per week hehe.

[Scowls]

[Mordien]

[Tordail]

[konarg]

[Gamanae]

[Ngreth Thergn]

[Ngreth Thergn]

[Tracor]

I visit the boards fairly often.. read alot but don't really post unless I feel I have something to offer.

With that said, I have something that I think needs emphasis. CS

6+ years of extremely poor CS has brought me to the brink of quitting on many occasions. I have to say I am very impressed with the change.

I think 90% of the people that play this game are intelligent enough to understand mistakes happen. They are also intelligent enough to know what bad CS is

I just wanted to stop and post a thank you to those at SOE that have broken a bad service policy. My hat's off to you. You have my respect because of your honesty.

Tracor - Tunare

[Veril]

[Kellenial]

[Bigcat Daddy-o]

[Sownow]

Thank you negreth.

Personally as far as the DS potions go the store bought component pots (i believe VI) should be equivalent to the old pots and any higher than that should be an increase in the DS. the old potions would scale up some by level of the use but as i understand it this will no longer be the case because it is based on the level of the potion. The argument that we are not rangers or druids well your right we have to pay for our DS and our DS has not had a Significant upgrade in a very long time (other than the slight scaling up by level).

Personally I was hoping that there were going be better DS potions with this revamp .. not make the ones that I used all the time have to have drops that are a complete PITA to get.
I tend to so a lot of soloing when not raiding ... and based on the new potions I'm going just my 9th coldain ring instead of the VI potions unless they are retuned.

[Scowls]

k heres a problem with the disease cure potions (distilate of immunization) ive made the lvl 2, lvl 6 and lvl 10 potions, thing is they all are on same recast timer, all recast in 2 minutes, and all cast the same spell . now maybe im dense, but shouldnt there be a differnce in the cure counters, recast timer, number of times each potion cures between the lvl 2 store bought for 2pp, and lvl 10 farmed for and still cost 46p with 363 trivial?

id suggest making the recast tiemrs less with each potion lvl please...these had 1 real use in all of EQ, AMV encounter in anguish. and he casts 2 disease cureable dots/slow and 1 disease cureable death touch. meaning you had to be ready to cure yourself 5-6 times if needed to unbury the DT...and now with a long refresh it means pretty much that most of the raid is going to die or be doing nothing but self curing and not DPSing/healing.

[Samanna]

[Scowls]

[Samanna]

[Scowls]

for the amount of effort and plat involved to make one, considering disease cure pots have really only 1 purpose, and that you would easily make 200 + potions for a anguish clear, i really dont see the problem with a potion that cures faster than 2 minutes. right now they have 35 counters, but with a 2 minute recast and 1 layer of cureing (not counter 9 disease 4 times to removed 2 dots if able) it doesnt matter if hey have 100million counters, you get to cure the slow AMV put on you and still die in 20 seconds from his DT...if his dot didnt get you first.

all this one change has really done is frced up the the already insane price of sheild of the immaculates to 150k regeon. i made some immunization 10 pots yesterday when the recipee was posted, i had some shards of ro banked, but i think instead ill spend my time farming and selling cure shields....they work better, MUCH better than what shaman can provide in alchemy. they can provide the cureing thas needed for encounter designed b SOE (80 counters in 20 seconds)...oddly thats 20 seconds curing 1, 10 seconds meleeing, unless he dots again, then back to curing. you act like a cure potion was massivly overpowering...it had a cast time before, folks had to cast that instead of melee/nuke/heal.

like i said before, i like the changes to alchemy overall, but i think an across the board template design making everthing we make come in 10 diff levels has caued a few problems. most of the time its made potions better, or as a minimum unchanged, but in a few instances its added far more problems than it helped. unless "too powerful" means that people without 1 specific item in the game, o a shaman in their group is guarunteed to die on amv. maybe its intended that the event be based on how many shaman bots folks get flagged? after all with and basic spell haste a shaman can cure 324 disease counters in 20 seconds easy, whats insane about our potions (with a cast time) keeping up? whats wrong with devs making potions confering with devs who design events, or shaman who are there to cure their raids thru group heals and alchemy? folks casting a cure with a cast time cant do their normal jobs, it wasn't a freebe cure

[Aruman]

Those cure potions will be useful on AMV. I don't see how people are saying they couldn't be useful. Even with a 2 minute reuse.

[Ungkor]

[Gadzuks]

[Tandaro]

It is great to see an EQ developer actually interact with the player community. I have a comment that goes accross the board for development, and seems not to be on the scope for many developers. EQ is a wonderful system. but has been subject to long standing flaws. Many times things seem to get changed for the sake of change and are a great source of aggrivation. I have been playing since May 2000. I have two sons that started but over the years stopped playing and moved on to other games. I like EQ, I am now in one of the top guilds on Tunare with a cleric main and use the accounts my sons started in part of support that main. Sitting and clicking to make combines (tradeskills) is not a passion for me, nor is making stuff to sell in the bazaar a motivation. I have a shammy that I set up with alchemy to make things I need for raiding with the cleric, mainly simple potions such as shrink, antiweight, and SoW potions, or that are useful for leveling up alts. I welcomed the vastly improved tradeskill interface, and used it togood advantage. I had recipes stored, vendors located and the like, on occassion I would make a few gate potions for my non caster alts. I had a very useful character with a nice stable skill, not impacting the server economy. Now I have wasted all the time and effort I put into this character's skill because you CHANGE THE SYSTEM. Please in the future ADD to the system but Don't erase years of time and utility. It is frustrating to need to spend time searching the boards to find the new recipe for shrink potions as an example. Players use trade skills in many ways for many purposes. LEAVE WHAT IS ALONE And give us IMPROVEMENTS not CHANGE.

TO give a simple example, one reason I stay with EQ is that I have spend a lot of time learning this game, its fine points and how to use its User Interface. How happy do you think I am that probably hundreds of developer hours went into generating a new user interface with a new look and feel. SPELL ICONS CHANGED, SHAPE OF WINDOWS CHANGED, and then have to spend days searching out a fix to retain my old UI and have the features I paid for in the newest expansion. I doubt you can imagine my rage! IF I wanted to learn a whole new set of icons I could go to World of Warcraft. I don't want to relearn new set-ups to match skills I have developed in the last 5 years. New content yes I love it. New functions and names for stuff I use every day - PLEASE SPARE US, that is no favor.

I greet the change in alchemy the same way. IT makes me deeply angry! I learned to use the flawed system to advantage, you remake the system in a way that wipes out the utility from my point of view. Your new system may be, and I assume is, much better, but my cost is many hours lost for small gain. It makes me look with new eyes to the offerings of other companies in search of a stable gaming platform.

[Arrowheade]

I must agree with Tandaro but in my case the shaman is and will remain my main character. I look at the new alchemy with mixed feelings. The old system was severely flawed and was in need of repair. The improvements allowing stacking without combines in bearskin bags etc are definitely a help.

The biggest problem is as stated previously...many of us spent significant time learning potions that were useful. In my case I rarely sold potions with vendor...I made them to benefit guild raiding. So I had a good page or so of memorized potion recipes that I could call upon to restock guild members or the guild bank as needed. After the new system went into effect I lost over half of those potions. My question is why there was no provision for conversion. For example, if you learned ITU or shrink then just convert the memmed potion to the new format. The only potions remaining on the list were those that the formulation did not change...essentially Omens era and on.

The second problem involves containers. While they are not difficult to make with moderate skill pottery and you can make many at once, I found it a nuisance that I now have to make most of my containers. These really should be available to buy from vendors or make as the player wishes.

The final problem is more thorny. Some ingredients require a drop or worse = FORAGE. I find that any recipe that uses ingredients that are foraged is just wrong when the class doing the combine cannot forage. I am aware that some or even most of the foraged ingredients are also dropped but I still wonder at how potions that heretofore had vendor purchased ingredients are now more arduous based on drops and foraging.

Anyway, thank you for the update. Overall your changes are good...please consider conversions from previous potions for those that have similar or like effects even though the ingredients may have changed.

[Slithor]

[Ngreth Thergn]

[Dreic]